roQhound
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2023
Posts: 104
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Post by roQhound on Feb 8, 2024 19:56:17 GMT -5
Hello, everyone.
I've got a question that I'm hoping hasn't been answered (I did search). I'm hoping to buy a cabbing machine in the near future, so as I do with most things, I've been researching, reading, and watching as many videos as I can find ahead of time to kickstart my learning. I do have a question though and I'm wondering what people think about this or if they actually have tried or currently practice it.
Has anybody tried or is currently using this progression:
80 Hard
220 Hard
140 Soft
280 Soft
600 Soft
1200 Soft
Skipping 3000 Soft
Then moving right to Cerium on a polishing wheel.
The reason I ask is that I've seen some videos of experienced cabbers dropping down from the 220 hard to a 140 soft because they feel it helps remove those scratches from the 220 hard wheels quicker than going straight to 280 soft. Does anybody here do this or have you tried it in the past? The second part of my question is about going right from 1200 soft to a polishing wheel with cerium. I've seen quite a few videos (not related to cabbing) showing people going to cerium from lower grits than 1200 and getting great results quickly. Cabbing wheels aren't cheap, so I wanted some opinions before committing one way or another, but I do think there could be something to dropping from 220 hard to 140 soft and then back up to 280 soft.
Thanks for your opinions or experiences.
Quentin
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 9, 2024 9:29:02 GMT -5
Hi Quentin, I don't use that configuration, but I do go from 220 hard to 220 soft with great results. I use the 3000 and an 8000 before I use diamond 50k and sometimes 100k. I think it depends on your material. I like to have options. I have never used the cerium.
ETA Ooops, I forgot the 12k
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 9, 2024 10:10:52 GMT -5
Following as I'm curious too. Didn't know about the 140 soft and may help me
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 9, 2024 11:10:48 GMT -5
rockjunquie you can still get new 220 soft wheels? Rons Rocks used to have them made for him by DP but I thought they were long gone.
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 9, 2024 11:13:25 GMT -5
rockjunquie you can still get new 220 soft wheels? Rons Rocks used to have them made for him by DP but I thought they were long gone. They are gone. I got one from Johnson Bros. I haven't used it, yet. I got it when I couldn't get one from Ron and haven't needed it, yet. (The DP has a lot of life.) I suspect it will work fine. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 9, 2024 11:36:23 GMT -5
I think the 140 soft is a cabbing style choice, more for flat spot removal than scratch removal, since 140 does make bigger scratches. Or maybe they are removing 80 grit scratches due to not enough 220 hard. On a machine that never does material below about 5.5 Mohs with uniform hardness through the stone that may work fine, but not so sure about a lot of the softer, and more expensive materials.
At the top end I see issues as well. I regularly work some nice materials that don't get along with cerium at all for a variety of reasons, and for all but a handful, like 99% of people can't pick the cab that went to the 3k wheel from the one that went on to cerium.
If all you do is hard agates and jaspers, going from a 600 SiC expando to cerium can produce the same wet look that another person gets going all the way to 50k paste, I've seen those cabs in old collections and my first true teacher taught me in a club shop that had that setup.
The Glendale shop at the adult center has a couple genies with different wheel progressions, I should get a membership and go play there to see what I'm missing. I'm retired and theoretically have time on my hands, right?
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 9, 2024 11:40:57 GMT -5
rockjunquie you can still get new 220 soft wheels? Rons Rocks used to have them made for him by DP but I thought they were long gone. They are gone. I got one from Johnson Bros. I haven't used it, yet. I got it when I couldn't get one from Ron and haven't needed it, yet. (The DP has a lot of life.) I suspect it will work fine. There is a guy in Idaho who is doing recoats that a lot of FB people are happy with, and he has 220 available. I have enough good cores to send him, maybe I'll get 2 at 220, and if he has it, one at 140. I have the other cabmate I could use for experimental stuff. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 9, 2024 11:56:28 GMT -5
They are gone. I got one from Johnson Bros. I haven't used it, yet. I got it when I couldn't get one from Ron and haven't needed it, yet. (The DP has a lot of life.) I suspect it will work fine. There is a guy in Idaho who is doing recoats that a lot of FB people are happy with, and he has 220 available. I have enough good cores to send him, maybe I'll get 2 at 220, and if he has it, one at 140. I have the other cabmate I could use for experimental stuff. Will you post that Idaho guy's info again? I know you have before, but I don't remember. I have a lot of bald wheels. I'd like to get a few done myself. |
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Post by stardiamond on Feb 9, 2024 14:11:55 GMT -5
My 80 grit wheel is aggressive and leaves scratches. My 220 grit hard wheel was not very useful. A well worn 80 grit does a better job of scratch removal. I mounted a 140 soft wheel in place of the 220 and it handles the lighter scratches from the worn 80. I don't use the 140 or 280 to shape, so I no longer use a 220 soft. One nice thing about a Genie is being able to add a second spin on arbor and try out different wheel combinations.
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Feb 9, 2024 15:23:44 GMT -5
I have 60 and 120 sintered hard wheels. Then I go to 220 and 400 8X3 belts on expandos. After those the 600, 1200, 3,000, 14,000 then either a 50k or often old school Linde A alumina on a leather pad which is about 60,000. These are all on my "antique" Raytech 8" cabbing machines. Once scratches are out at 400 the 600 requires less use. I also have a Titan with 280, 600, 1200, 3,000 and 14,000 soft wheels and a 220 hard wheel. I am thinking about selling the Titan since I like my variable speed Raytechs with pressure water feed more than the high speed Titan with spitters. 8" wheels are more expensive than 6" but cut faster at the same RPM and usually last longer. I also have a really cute little 2&3/8" wheel machine that I run the usual DP progression on since as far as I know DP is the only maker of the little wheels.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Feb 9, 2024 16:28:27 GMT -5
gunsil Sounds like a fun shop setup you have. I’ve often thought it’d be nice to have multiple machines for more wheels. And a smaller wheel setup for tighter curves. Your sintered hard, do you like the sintered better than just the standard hard wheels? If so, why?
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Feb 9, 2024 16:33:04 GMT -5
roQhound Interesting topic for someone who is still shopping for a machine. I just kind of trusted the experts and went with the wheel setup that came with my machine. I haven’t done enough cabbing yet to really understand where I might want to change up a wheel. I have noticed though that if I do a good job of removing all scratches at every wheel, then the cerium or other polish is very often, most often even, not even needed and provides zero noticeable difference when I use it. My wheels end on 3000.
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Feb 9, 2024 17:15:37 GMT -5
gunsil Sounds like a fun shop setup you have. I’ve often thought it’d be nice to have multiple machines for more wheels. And a smaller wheel setup for tighter curves. Your sintered hard, do you like the sintered better than just the standard hard wheels? If so, why? I got JB sintered wheels mostly because they will outlast me. I've used a couple of plated wheels and they didn't last so long. Sintered is great, just danged expensive. One thing about sintered is they recommend going one or two grits lower than plated wheels. Yeah, I have too many machines but I am a gearhead for sure. I already had two 8" Raytech machines and together they hold eight wheels. A friend told me about an estate sale and the doctor who had passed was a cabber. I went there and got the Titan and an 18" Raytech saw, lucked out because they sold them very reasonable. My big mistake was not taking the piles of rough in the basement but after the Titan and the saw I was fairly broke. There was a pile of picture jasper from the early 80s but I left it behind. I think the son would have sold me the rough cheap because he needed the house cleaned out for sale.
Yeah, my little 2&3/8 machine makes great inside curves but those little wheels wear out much faster than bigger wheels. It's a home made machine and uses spitters and throws water all over the place. One of these days I'll get to learning the cloudinary thing so I can post photos of my workshop and cabs and jewelry. It'll make some folks crazy because I also have an original HP 14" saw, two power feed 10" saws with different thickness blades and two 6" trim saws with different thickness blades. I have been lucky finding used machines over the years and I am good at refurbishing older equipment.
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Post by rmf on Feb 9, 2024 21:29:48 GMT -5
@roqhound as you can see above opinions are like arm pits you have more than one and they usually stink. There are many ways to slice the apple. If I were just starting out I would select 80 & 220 hard wheels 280 600 1200 3000 soft wheels. Get some practice and by the time you have work out the 280 grit wheel you may wish to change the configuration. from the 3000 soft I would use conventional polish but I would also get a 8000 soft wheel. I do not use the 8000 much so don't run out an buy one right off but on some stones they do a good job. For softer material I like the 8000 eastwind it is not a nova type wheel but a fiber belt on a wheel which does an outstanding job in lapis, turquoise and dolomites/petoskey stone.
I own a Diamond Pacific Titan, It was the best machine at the time. Now I would choose an arbor with a motor driving the wheels by belt. Then if the motor dies you get a new motor not a whole new unit. That is just me, see the opinion is already starting to stink!
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 9, 2024 23:37:55 GMT -5
There is a guy in Idaho who is doing recoats that a lot of FB people are happy with, and he has 220 available. I have enough good cores to send him, maybe I'll get 2 at 220, and if he has it, one at 140. I have the other cabmate I could use for experimental stuff. Will you post that Idaho guy's info again? I know you have before, but I don't remember. I have a lot of bald wheels. I'd like to get a few done myself. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 10, 2024 0:22:23 GMT -5
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller 
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Feb 10, 2024 1:00:22 GMT -5
80, 220, 280 soft, 600 soft, 1200, soft, 3000 soft. That’s all anybody needs. At least as far as I’m concerned. Have zero issues getting scratches out with the standard set.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Feb 10, 2024 18:00:12 GMT -5
Batcave, Just off the wheels, not through final polish. Not a scratch in sight (those weird lil marks that showed up in the lower right are not scratches just fyi). This is a material that will 100% show scratches. Especially in the lighter area because its soft soft soft!!!! This was done on the standard wheel progression.  |
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,172
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Post by rockbrain on Feb 10, 2024 18:08:48 GMT -5
They are gone. I got one from Johnson Bros. I haven't used it, yet. I got it when I couldn't get one from Ron and haven't needed it, yet. (The DP has a lot of life.) I suspect it will work fine. There is a guy in Idaho who is doing recoats that a lot of FB people are happy with, and he has 220 available. I have enough good cores to send him, maybe I'll get 2 at 220, and if he has it, one at 140. I have the other cabmate I could use for experimental stuff. I have a JB soft 220 Supernova and it worked fine. |
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