rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Apr 15, 2024 9:50:40 GMT -5
So while I think my shines are nice, I think I can get them nicer. 1. by spending more time earlier in my process and 2. by adding another polish step. I currently have a canvas polish pad with 14,000 diamond paste on it. I want to buy another pad and maybe add 50,000 polish powder, but can't decide between CK's felt polishing pad, or getting a leather polishing pad from KN (CK's suggestion) and attaching to the spin on disk that comes with CK and trying cerium polish. I do a fair amount of softer stones, but also harder agates, etc. Can the cerium be used for all stages? So I would go through my wheels, do the 14,000 diamond paste, then up it to the 50,000 cerium, or should I keep like polishes and not interchange - I can get diamond powder and make my own paste. I want the process to be as interchangeable as possible vs. needing different pads for different stones, etc. Thanks so much!
Happy Monday (oxymoron!)
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Apr 15, 2024 12:52:19 GMT -5
Hard felt and cerium oxide is hard to beat for polishing high silica content stones like agates, jasper, quartz, etc.. Minimum 1/4" thick hard felt pad (3/8" thick even better). Not the 1/8" thick ones that some of the lapidary suppliers sell. And when using cerium oxide on hard felt you only need to sand up to 1200 or 3000 depending on the hardness of the stone. If using diamond paste it is very important to thoroughly clean the cab between stages to prevent cross contamination. Back when I was using diamond paste I used Ronsonol cigarette lighter - lighter fluid (which is basically NAPTHA) on a paper napkin to clean the stone between stages. And always avoid cross contamination of polishing agents on your polishing pads/belts. Have a dedicated polishing pad/belt for each polishing compound. Covington Engineering has a good polishing chart of recommendations for various stones linked here: covington-engineering.com/content/_pdf_files/buff%20%26%20polish%20chart.pdf |
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Post by Starguy on Apr 15, 2024 16:36:16 GMT -5
I added a couple spin on discs for the CK. One for 8K diamond and one for 50K diamond. With most rocks, it can be hard to tell a difference between 14K and 50K. With solid agates like MMA or porcelain jaspers, you can see an improvement. I second the idea of using lighter fluid for cleaning, followed with good dish soap and water. Cross contamination is a pain in the neck.
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Post by liveoak on Apr 16, 2024 6:40:02 GMT -5
I use the "spin on discs" that they sell, and have separate ones for polishing compounds: Cerium, tin, chrome, and Alumina (figured I'd be covered for anything).
When I was looking, I couldn't figure out which pad to buy, either. But I read in "Gem Cutting" by John Sinkankas, that if you only could choose one type of pad, smooth leather was a good bet.
And the spin on discs come with a foam backing and smooth leather
Been working for me.
Patty
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Apr 16, 2024 7:17:42 GMT -5
I use old Linde A alumina which is 60,000 grit on a rough side out leather disc for most stones. Glassy finish.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Apr 16, 2024 7:22:39 GMT -5
Hard felt and cerium oxide is hard to beat for polishing high silica content stones like agates, jasper, quartz, etc.. Minimum 1/4" thick hard felt pad (3/8" thick even better). Not the 1/8" thick ones that some of the lapidary suppliers sell. And when using cerium oxide on hard felt you only need to sand up to 1200 or 3000 depending on the hardness of the stone. If using diamond paste it is very important to thoroughly clean the cab between stages to prevent cross contamination. Back when I was using diamond paste I used Ronsonol cigarette lighter - lighter fluid (which is basically NAPTHA) on a paper napkin to clean the stone between stages. And always avoid cross contamination of polishing agents on your polishing pads/belts. Have a dedicated polishing pad/belt for each polishing compound. Covington Engineering has a good polishing chart of recommendations for various stones linked here: covington-engineering.com/content/_pdf_files/buff%20%26%20polish%20chart.pdfGreat! Thank you very much. I've never heard of cleaning with lighter fluid, but I've only ever worked with one polish. I'm curious why lighter fluid and not just give a soap bath? Thanks for the chart from covington! I added a couple spin on discs for the CK. One for 8K diamond and one for 50K diamond. With most rocks, it can be hard to tell a difference between 14K and 50K. With solid agates like MMA or porcelain jaspers, you can see an improvement. I second the idea of using lighter fluid for cleaning, followed with good dish soap and water. Cross contamination is a pain in the neck. Thank you! I think this is what I'll try! I use the "spin on discs" that they sell, and have separate ones for polishing compounds: Cerium, tin, chrome, and Alumina (figured I'd be covered for anything).
When I was looking, I couldn't figure out which pad to buy, either. But I read in "Gem Cutting" by John Sinkankas, that if you only could choose one type of pad, smooth leather was a good bet.
And the spin on discs come with a foam backing and smooth leather
Been working for me.
Patty
I keep hearing good things about leather too. I think this is what I'll try - thank you!! |
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,171
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Post by rockbrain on Apr 16, 2024 9:01:35 GMT -5
The carrier for the diamond compound may not be water soluble. Silicone spray is recommended a lot when charging the diamond pads.
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Post by Starguy on Apr 16, 2024 10:13:42 GMT -5
The carrier for the diamond compound may not be water soluble. Silicone spray is recommended a lot when charging the diamond pads. That’s good advice. I use extender fluid or mineral oil. I never spray water on the pads. |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Apr 16, 2024 20:11:20 GMT -5
Correct that traditional diamond paste (bort) is not water soluble. Some of the modern Gearloose brand diamond sticks now available are. But those were not around back when I was using diamond paste so I usually used the Crystalite brand paste on canvas resin pads/belts. And I too used the spray silicon for lubricant. The cigarette lighter fluid is basically the same thing as NAPTHA which is a mild petroleum based solvent. It also works well for dissolving some adhesives like the types used on price stickers.
I will use leather with aluminum oxide polishes for some of the softer stones like Howlite, Tiger Iron, Malachite, Chrysocolla, Turquoise, etc.. But leather with cerium doesn't polish as well in my opinion.
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lapidary1234
spending too much on rocks
"If you like rocks you can't be all bad!!" ~ old timer quote
Member since October 2021
Posts: 293
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Post by lapidary1234 on Apr 23, 2024 16:07:47 GMT -5
rocknewb101 I was in your position a while back. I had bought a used genie with well worn wheels and while I was getting some shine, I knew it could be better. I started by getting a hard leather spin on end plate and using tin oxide... Then I figured it was time to just get a new set of wheels (glad I did too as I paid $685 last year and now kn is asking $865...23% increase). The new wheels helped alot and hitting afterwards with tin oxide really made them gloss. Only problem i found was that I'd have polish compound stuck in microscopic crevices. I doubled down and got an extra right hand adapter spindle for tge genie and added the finer grit wheels (8,000 14,000 50,000) This led me to the question I posed in the lapidary equipment forum the other day asking if anyone knew the grit equivalent of tin oxide or cerium. While I still haven't got a good answer about grit equivalents I will say that just by adding the finer wheels once I get to 14,000 (even 8,000) the difference in shine between those finer wheels and tin/cerium is negligible at best. The other route I could have went is to have bought an ultrasonic cleaner. To me it seems the time spent between putting the end plate on, charging said plate, polishing, then ultrasonic cleaning would be more time intensive vs putting on the other right hand spindle and using g the diamond wheels. I believe you use a cabking? Not sure if you can get an extra right hand spindle for it but if you can id say go for it. The right side (on a genie qt least) comes off as the whole spindle so you can setup your finer wheels on the spindle and just spin it on in seconds. Yes it was a bit of a monetary investment but you know the saying "time is money"...I just think of how much extra time id be spending spinning on that endplate and charging disc properly and then cleaning. Hope you made it this far, as my wife says, I often times don't know when to shut up! Cheers ~ Josh
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 23, 2024 17:40:49 GMT -5
rocknewb101 I was in your position a while back. I had bought a used genie with well worn wheels and while I was getting some shine, I knew it could be better. I started by getting a hard leather spin on end plate and using tin oxide... Then I figured it was time to just get a new set of wheels (glad I did too as I paid $685 last year and now kn is asking $865...23% increase). The new wheels helped alot and hitting afterwards with tin oxide really made them gloss. Only problem i found was that I'd have polish compound stuck in microscopic crevices. I doubled down and got an extra right hand adapter spindle for tge genie and added the finer grit wheels (8,000 14,000 50,000) This led me to the question I posed in the lapidary equipment forum the other day asking if anyone knew the grit equivalent of tin oxide or cerium. While I still haven't got a good answer about grit equivalents I will say that just by adding the finer wheels once I get to 14,000 (even 8,000) the difference in shine between those finer wheels and tin/cerium is negligible at best. The other route I could have went is to have bought an ultrasonic cleaner. To me it seems the time spent between putting the end plate on, charging said plate, polishing, then ultrasonic cleaning would be more time intensive vs putting on the other right hand spindle and using g the diamond wheels. I believe you use a cabking? Not sure if you can get an extra right hand spindle for it but if you can id say go for it. The right side (on a genie qt least) comes off as the whole spindle so you can setup your finer wheels on the spindle and just spin it on in seconds. Yes it was a bit of a monetary investment but you know the saying "time is money"...I just think of how much extra time id be spending spinning on that endplate and charging disc properly and then cleaning. Hope you made it this far, as my wife says, I often times don't know when to shut up! Cheers ~ Josh I got a right hand spindle for used wheels. Comes in handy for jade and others including some real soft ones.
I use the 8000, too. I really notice a difference going to 14k. I use spray on diamonds on smooth leather for 50 and 100k. I had been using felt, but I caught some orange peel on some. How frustrating to be on the final steps and have that happen!
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