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Post by liveoak on May 23, 2024 6:28:51 GMT -5
I finally got myself an ultrasonic cleaner - no more messing up the bathroom cleaning out that pesky polish with my water pick !
Anyone want to help me get started, with all the tips & tricks & timing for using it ?
For hard rocks & crystals, I THINK I've read plain old water and a little soap ?
How much time ?
Any other liquids I should experiment with ?
Any horror stories to share ??
All input appreciated.  Patty
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Post by rockjunquie on May 23, 2024 6:46:33 GMT -5
I don't know what other people do, but I use Dawn for 5 minutes. I never use heat. It seems to work fine without it. Place the things you want cleaned (druzy vugs, etc) facing down.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on May 23, 2024 6:47:16 GMT -5
Anything that is potentially fragile I test with super short runs like just a minute or two. I’ve used different solutions like Iron Out but usually just do water and a very small amount of soap. I think too much soap and it would suds too much though I haven’t had that mess occur. The water, on mine anyway, warms up pretty darn hot. If I let it run for a while I have to be careful or quick reaching in to grab my item. The thing is annoyingly noisy. A far away space for it is smart. And for items too big to fit in the main compartment you can set a tall narrow container inside filled with water to basically increase its capacity. Should be a handy new tool for your shop!👍
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Post by liveoak on May 23, 2024 8:26:13 GMT -5
I don't know what other people do, but I use Dawn for 5 minutes. I never use heat. It seems to work fine without it. Place the things you want cleaned (druzy vugs, etc) facing down. Thank you -
It seems obvious (now that you've said it) to put it face down, but truthfully I hadn't thought of that, so a big Thank You. One other question, with that in mind, have you found that cabs below a certain hardness get scratched on the metal basket from the vibration ? I was wondering if I should put a piece of vinyl coated mesh on the bottom of the basket for softer cabs ?
Anything that is potentially fragile I test with super short runs like just a minute or two. I’ve used different solutions like Iron Out but usually just do water and a very small amount of soap. I think too much soap and it would suds too much though I haven’t had that mess occur. The water, on mine anyway, warms up pretty darn hot. If I let it run for a while I have to be careful or quick reaching in to grab my item. The thing is annoyingly noisy. A far away space for it is smart. And for items too big to fit in the main compartment you can set a tall narrow container inside filled with water to basically increase its capacity. Should be a handy new tool for your shop!👍 Thanks Khara, just the info I needed.
I like the bigger jug idea, also would keep the mess in the other jug (like of hubby's carburetor !)
I read that plastic can dampen the waves, have you found that to be true ?
I haven't plugged mine in yet, so don't know how noisy it is - but I keep telling myself it's only for short runs, not like a tumbler, right ! Thanks for the help, Patty
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Post by rockjunquie on May 23, 2024 8:37:27 GMT -5
I haven't had anything scratch, but I guess it's possible.
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Post by vegasjames on May 23, 2024 8:41:39 GMT -5
I would research whatever stones you plan to put in there individually. I know opals should not be put in ultrasonic cleaners, nor soap really. There is a partial list of other stones that should not be put in an ultrasonic cleaner here as well: diamondbuzz.blog/gemstones-and-ultrasonic-cleaners/ |
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Post by liveoak on May 23, 2024 9:18:42 GMT -5
Thank you Tela, rockjunquieYou read so many things on the internet & never know how many of them are actually something to worry about. Thank you, vegasjames . A good overall on use. I get it soft stones - beware. Should be fun to experiment with. Patty |
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Post by opalpyrexia on May 23, 2024 10:35:14 GMT -5
All of my jewelry goes into the ultrasonic cleaner including opal jewelry. Sometimes cab preforms, too. Nothing has ever been damaged in any way.
My take is that if a piece is ever damaged in the ultrasonic, that's far better than having it fail in the hands of a customer.
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Post by chris1956 on May 23, 2024 16:45:55 GMT -5
Mine has a plastic basket so I don't get scratching from touching metal. I typically run it for two 480 second runs just water but will have to try some soap. The water seems to heat up on the second run so I may stop doing that. And if the rocks have cracks (I am not good at getting rid of every crack) you can get some chipping along the cracks. I am glad mine is not noisy.
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Post by vegasjames on May 23, 2024 17:29:23 GMT -5
All of my jewelry goes into the ultrasonic cleaner including opal jewelry. Sometimes cab preforms, too. Nothing has ever been damaged in any way. My take is that if a piece is ever damaged in the ultrasonic, that's far better than having it fail in the hands of a customer. Thing with opals is that they vary a lot in stability depending on two factors. Water content and aluminum oxide content. |
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Post by opalpyrexia on May 23, 2024 17:55:18 GMT -5
All of my jewelry goes into the ultrasonic cleaner including opal jewelry. Sometimes cab preforms, too. Nothing has ever been damaged in any way. My take is that if a piece is ever damaged in the ultrasonic, that's far better than having it fail in the hands of a customer. Thing with opals is that they vary a lot in stability depending on two factors. Water content and aluminum oxide content.
Yes, I've had some opals develop cracks/crazing, but never due to ultrasonic cleaning.
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titaniumkid
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2023
Posts: 513
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Post by titaniumkid on May 23, 2024 18:41:01 GMT -5
Mine has a plastic basket so I don't get scratching from touching metal. I typically run it for two 480 second runs just water but will have to try some soap. The water seems to heat up on the second run so I may stop doing that. And if the rocks have cracks (I am not good at getting rid of every crack) you can get some chipping along the cracks. I am glad mine is not noisy. This is exactly my experience, including chips along cracks |
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Post by vegasjames on May 23, 2024 18:43:06 GMT -5
Thing with opals is that they vary a lot in stability depending on two factors. Water content and aluminum oxide content.
Yes, I've had some opals develop cracks/crazing, but never due to ultrasonic cleaning.
Crazing is a different issue. The reason opals can craze is because they are not true solids. Opals are actually a gel. Therefore, the molecules are still mobile. As the molecules move, they need time to stabilize in their new formation. When the molecules get moved faster than they can stabilize, the result is crazing. This is why opals with a higher water content freshly dug out of the ground have to be stored in water then water content reduced at an extremely slow rate. The slow reduction of water allows time for the gel to obtain a stable state before further loss of water on its way to the formation of a chalcedony.
Even with lab grown opal, the process takes about a year or more to complete. The opal growth itself is actually very rapid, and can complete in less than an hour to 6 months depending on the process. The slow part is the extremely slow reduction in water content, which can take from 6 months to 2 years to allow the opal to stabilize sufficiently that it does not need to be kept wet and can be used
Once the water content of opal drops below 3%, due to Van der Waals forces, the opal starts going from an amorphous state to a crystalline state, eventually converting completely in to some form of chalcedony. At this point it is now a true solid, and the molecules are no longer mobile.
I have a batch of opal gel I made sitting in my fridge right now. I let it sit for a while, and actually forgot about it for a long time sitting in the back of the fridge. I just cracked the lid a few days ago to allow the liquid to start slowly evaporating. I have made opal gels in the past a few different ways. This is a very different process than I have used previously, so going to be interesting to see how it turns out.
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Post by liveoak on May 23, 2024 19:41:57 GMT -5
All of my jewelry goes into the ultrasonic cleaner including opal jewelry. Sometimes cab preforms, too. Nothing has ever been damaged in any way. My take is that if a piece is ever damaged in the ultrasonic, that's far better than having it fail in the hands of a customer. Thanks, Gary, that gives me good confidence. I like your philosophy, and have thought similarly, when I put a wire wrap in the tumbler.
Mine has a plastic basket so I don't get scratching from touching metal. I typically run it for two 480 second runs just water but will have to try some soap. The water seems to heat up on the second run so I may stop doing that. And if the rocks have cracks (I am not good at getting rid of every crack) you can get some chipping along the cracks. I am glad mine is not noisy. Thanks, Chris. I obviously have to start experimenting. I think a small amount of soap makes sense, as it breaks the surface tension (or so I've read).
Patty
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rocknuv
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2024
Posts: 9
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Post by rocknuv on May 25, 2024 22:34:50 GMT -5
Here is what I do. I have a Vevor 6L ultrasonic cleaner, the one with the black and white front label.
Preparation
I fill up the ultrasonic cleaner to the appropriate level with distilled water. This water will last well over a month because the rocks never touch this water. Instead, I place the rocks in a Ziplock bag, add 1/2 tablespoon of borax to the bag and then fill the bag with distilled water so that the water is about 1/2" to 1" above the rocks. Be sure to individually rinse all noticeable slurry and grit from the rocks with warm tap water before putting them in the Ziplock bag. Use a brush if necessary. Gently mix up the rocks and borax and place the sealed Ziplock bag (now containing rocks, water and borax) in the water of the ultrasonic bath. The oscillations from the ultrasonic cleaner will penetrate through the thin bag. You could even put the rocks in a water filled glass beaker and place that in the ultrasonic, as many scientists do in the lab. I use a Ziplock bag.
Cleaning
I set the temperature setpoint to 30C and the timer at about 15-20 minutes. At the end of the duration the temperature of the water is usually between 35-40C. After more than 6 months and countless runs, I have not seen any issues from using these settings. Other people do not like using any heat at all. The sonication will release rock slurry still stuck on the rocks, but more importantly, it will help remove any grit still left in the rock crevices. This is why I run the rocks in an ultrasonic cleaner after each stage.
Post cleaning
Remove the bag from the ultrasonic bath and rinse it down the sink or dump it outside. Just know that borax or soap will kill your grass and all other types of vegetation. Yes, vegetation needs some boron but not at these concentrations. Since I rinse the rocks really well before the ultrasonic bath, I usually can just dump the borax/rock solution down the sink with lots of running water. If there is noticeable slurry in the bag then, of course, you don't want to clog your plumbing. That is why I initially rinse each rock individually with warm tap water before putting them in the bag. Once you have dumped the solution out of the bag, rinse the rocks in the bag a few times with warm tap water. The rocks should now be ready for the next stage. I have yet to see a need for brushing the rocks after the ultrasonic cleaning.
Final Notes
I ultrasonically clean stage 1 rocks only if they are ready to go on to stage 2.
For stages 2 and above I use the ultrasonic cleaner on all the rocks, and they are wet through the entire process. I never let the rocks dry during stages 2 and above.
After the final stage, and after the ultrasonic bath, I'll give the rocks a final rinse, in the Ziplock bag, with distilled or filtered water and then dry them with a soft cloth.
I've not tried liquid soap yet. But that seems like it should work just as well.
The ultrasonic bath has two main purposes. First, to clean off any grit stuck on the rocks before starting the next stage. Secondly to give the rocks a nice shine after the final stage.
I don't do any "burnishing" in the tumbler after the final stage. Just the sonication as described above.
As mentioned, I use distilled water in the Ziplock bag, but tap water might work just as well.
The Ziplock bag process will result in less of a mess and less need for cleaning out the water from the ultrasonic bath.
The same bag can be used many times if rinsed well.
Also, never put your fingers in an ultrasonic cleaner while it's running. Also, if it is loud, hearing protection will be helpful.
Good luck.
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Post by liveoak on May 26, 2024 6:00:48 GMT -5
Thank you, rocknuv . I like the plastic bag idea with added borax, I'll give that a try. I finally fired it up last night - WOW, khara ! You were right the noise was pretty bad. Instant headache ! Tom had offered to make me a rolling stand to put it on, since the place next to my cabber, it's destined to live, is a little out of the way. But now I know what the wheels are really for, to roll it out of my studio. 
Patty
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Post by rockjunquie on May 26, 2024 8:31:20 GMT -5
We keep ours in the bathroom. Louder than any tumbler, for sure.
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Post by parfive on May 27, 2024 14:08:20 GMT -5
I ultrasonically clean stage 1 rocks only if they are ready to go on to stage 2. For stages 2 and above I use the ultrasonic cleaner on all the rocks . . .. The plastic bag is a nifty idea when the ultrasonic is needed, but going through this routine after 60/90 coarse grit is unnecessary . . . like giving the dog a bath before throwin’ him in a mud puddle. I could see, maybe, before polish, but that’s about it. |
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