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Post by cabby on Jul 16, 2024 8:44:10 GMT -5
Now that I know that the “collection” is pretty much all rough, I decided that I will be selling materials as slabs. I know that I need new blades soon, anyway, so need to make some decisions… currently have 18” and 10” slab saws that are both oil and a cheap used tile saw with water. Also have a “gem maker” type machine that is not yet assembled that uses 10” blades.
I would like to have a thin kerf option for more valuable of materials, but not sure about what size slabs I should be aiming for. I am concerned that a thin blade in the 18” would have way more risk of deflecting, but having the thinner blade in the 10” would mean chopping rough into smaller sizes to fit the smaller table/vise.
For those of you that buy slabs, what are the min and max dimensions that you look for?
For those that sell slabs, what do you consider the min/max salable sizes?
Would bigger slabs with more waste be better? Or smaller slabs with less waste? Am I being paranoid about thin 18”? Right now the main materials that I am wanting to reduce waste for are Luna agate (big), old stock sunset- maybe Richardson ranch (medium), and dryhead agates (small). Haven’t identified many things yet so not sure what else might be valuable.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2024 9:35:06 GMT -5
I don't know about blades because I just buy slabs.
I like 5.5 to 6mm slabs. I think those are the most common and preferred thicknesses. With the Richardson plumes and any good plumes, you can go much thinner. Most of them (plumes and ferny dendrites) I see are sliced thin to show off plumes and/or dendrites. They are then backed.
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Post by rmf on Jul 16, 2024 9:45:46 GMT -5
For larger saws like the 18" the saw kerf usually takes out one slab in 3 or for every 3 slabs you have ground into muck the equivalent of one slab. Or if you have 100lbs of rock then you will get between 60 and 72 pounds of slabs. Depending on size, shape and material along with pattern and fractures. as always you mileage will vary.
For my trim saw i you a .012 thick blade. This works good on opals, lapis, turquoise, etc which are pricier so you want to waste less rock in the saw kerf.
the good news it is great for trimming slabs. the bad news is the blade flexes and it is very hard to slab small pieces.
From my experience: for slabbing assume 60% recovery from rough to slab, from the slab to the preform my average is about 60% recovery, and from the preform to the cab I get about 60% recovery. My tests on preforms and cabs were done with brazilian agate slabs that I picked for beauty and no cracks (I still lost three due to a hidden cracks) As always your mileage will vary here as well.
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Post by rmf on Jul 16, 2024 9:51:39 GMT -5
one more thing. My default slab is 5 cranks on the advance in the saw. this works out to 5/16" thick. I would not go thicker except for spacial use. I have also cabbed slabs that are 1/4" thick I would not go thinner except for special request. There is one semi local guy that cuts all his slabs at 3/8" and I will not buy his slabs since this creates too much wast to make cabbing practical. It wastes my time and diamond wheels. I still grind overly thick stuff for left overs, butt slabs and odd pieces but that is from my rough I will buy extra work.
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Post by cabby on Jul 16, 2024 11:12:20 GMT -5
I don't know about blades because I just buy slabs.
I like 5.5 to 6mm slabs. I think those are the most common and preferred thicknesses. With the Richardson plumes and any good plumes, you can go much thinner. Most of them (plumes and ferny dendrites) I see are sliced thin to show off plumes and/or dendrites. They are then backed.
Thanks for the advice! Knew I want thinner for agates but didn’t consider plume thickness. When you buy slabs, what kind of dimensions do you go for, such as 5x3 or 8x4… do you have a minimum number of cabs you want per slab, or prefer the biggest slabs you can get of the material you want? Trying to decide if I should use the 18” for everything, or cut things down to what fits the 10” saw (which results in smaller slabs in the end). |
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Post by cabby on Jul 16, 2024 11:19:40 GMT -5
For larger saws like the 18" the saw kerf usually takes out one slab in 3 or for every 3 slabs you have ground into muck the equivalent of one slab. Or if you have 100lbs of rock then you will get between 60 and 72 pounds of slabs. Depending on size, shape and material along with pattern and fractures. as always you mileage will vary. For my trim saw i you a .012 thick blade. This works good on opals, lapis, turquoise, etc which are pricier so you want to waste less rock in the saw kerf. the good news it is great for trimming slabs. the bad news is the blade flexes and it is very hard to slab small pieces. From my experience: for slabbing assume 60% recovery from rough to slab, from the slab to the preform my average is about 60% recovery, and from the preform to the cab I get about 60% recovery. My tests on preforms and cabs were done with brazilian agate slabs that I picked for beauty and no cracks (I still lost three due to a hidden cracks) As always your mileage will vary here as well. What diameter is your trim saw blade? I was hoping to do a thin kerf for slabbing, but sounds like the deflection will be too much of an issue. And starting to look like I will need to either buy another saw or sell some rough… didn’t consider what to do about the turquoise I have! Would be such a waste to use the tile saw for that., and want to keep the 10” using oil. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2024 11:23:17 GMT -5
I don't know about blades because I just buy slabs.
I like 5.5 to 6mm slabs. I think those are the most common and preferred thicknesses. With the Richardson plumes and any good plumes, you can go much thinner. Most of them (plumes and ferny dendrites) I see are sliced thin to show off plumes and/or dendrites. They are then backed.
Thanks for the advice! Knew I want thinner for agates but didn’t consider plume thickness. When you buy slabs, what kind of dimensions do you go for, such as 5x3 or 8x4… do you have a minimum number of cabs you want per slab, or prefer the biggest slabs you can get of the material you want? Trying to decide if I should use the 18” for everything, or cut things down to what fits the 10” saw (which results in smaller slabs in the end). I buy slabs in whatever dimensions they are offered and obviously look for the best deals. Some stones cut big slabs, so I'll buy a big slab and conversely a small rock will cut a small slab. It depends on material, too. I don't really look at how many cabs. I look at whether the material warrants the price- whatever size.
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Post by cabby on Jul 16, 2024 11:31:56 GMT -5
rockjunquie thank you! That answered another question that I hadn’t posted about yet… I noticed that some of my rough has a nicer pattern on the narrow end but can be 2-3x as wide of slabs cut the long direction. Was worried that only being able to get 1-2 cabs out of a slab might be too small.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller 
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Jul 16, 2024 12:11:53 GMT -5
Why sell? Just hoard 😂
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2024 12:15:57 GMT -5
rockjunquie thank you! That answered another question that I hadn’t posted about yet… I noticed that some of my rough has a nicer pattern on the narrow end but can be 2-3x as wide of slabs cut the long direction. Was worried that only being able to get 1-2 cabs out of a slab might be too small. Yeah, I would cut for the best slabs, not the most slabs. A good looking small slab will bring in more than a yucky, featureless big slab. |
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Post by pebblesky on Jul 16, 2024 12:49:35 GMT -5
What will attract me are the qualities. Pattern, color and how fine the texture is. However I mainly buy slabs to tumble though so they need to be cheap and thick, so I am probably not your target consumer.
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Post by rmf on Jul 16, 2024 19:04:04 GMT -5
For larger saws like the 18" the saw kerf usually takes out one slab in 3 or for every 3 slabs you have ground into muck the equivalent of one slab. Or if you have 100lbs of rock then you will get between 60 and 72 pounds of slabs. Depending on size, shape and material along with pattern and fractures. as always you mileage will vary. For my trim saw i you a .012 thick blade. This works good on opals, lapis, turquoise, etc which are pricier so you want to waste less rock in the saw kerf. the good news it is great for trimming slabs. the bad news is the blade flexes and it is very hard to slab small pieces. From my experience: for slabbing assume 60% recovery from rough to slab, from the slab to the preform my average is about 60% recovery, and from the preform to the cab I get about 60% recovery. My tests on preforms and cabs were done with brazilian agate slabs that I picked for beauty and no cracks (I still lost three due to a hidden cracks) As always your mileage will vary here as well. What diameter is your trim saw blade? I was hoping to do a thin kerf for slabbing, but sounds like the deflection will be too much of an issue. And starting to look like I will need to either buy another saw or sell some rough… didn’t consider what to do about the turquoise I have! Would be such a waste to use the tile saw for that., and want to keep the 10” using oil. I have a 24" and an 18" |
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 16, 2024 23:59:31 GMT -5
Slabbing is enjoyable and all, but if the goal is increasing the value, keep in mind the value of the rough vs slabs is profitable with more expensive and desirable materials in short supply, but with basic materials it just makes the saw dirty and the material a little easier to store when it won't sell. Need to be picky what you put in the saw, when in doubt I just split it to see what's inside, if it looks desirable I clean the oil off, glue the cut ends to boards, and slab away. If it's ok but not great it becomes faced rough and sold as is.
Turquoise sells by weight, and the mark up for slabs is not worth it, most people who work it will prefer to use their own saw, same with any more high end gem type material, especially porous stuff that can be stained by oil. Windowing a small part of a turquoise nugget to show that it will polish is about the only thing I would do.
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Post by cabby on Jul 17, 2024 5:59:27 GMT -5
Slabbing is enjoyable and all, but if the goal is increasing the value, keep in mind the value of the rough vs slabs is profitable with more expensive and desirable materials in short supply, but with basic materials it just makes the saw dirty and the material a little easier to store when it won't sell. Need to be picky what you put in the saw, when in doubt I just split it to see what's inside, if it looks desirable I clean the oil off, glue the cut ends to boards, and slab away. If it's ok but not great it becomes faced rough and sold as is. Turquoise sells by weight, and the mark up for slabs is not worth it, most people who work it will prefer to use their own saw, same with any more high end gem type material, especially porous stuff that can be stained by oil. Windowing a small part of a turquoise nugget to show that it will polish is about the only thing I would do. My tentative plan is slab and sell most the material that are more desirable. More common materials, such as the Brazilian agates or snowflake obsidian, will be used for making various “crafting” things. I have dreams of being able to work the turquoise myself, someday, but I tend to be terrified of wasting things! A lot of it already has polished windows, but since it’s all jumbled together I can’t tell what is what *sighs*. This guy didn’t buy a lot of expensive materials, as far as I can tell (was more common at the time), but he also didn’t seem to buy low grade, either. One of the turquoise labels I found was “natural Evan’s turquoise” and not seeing obvious signs of treatment on most nuggets. Also found “robin egg” label. It LOOKS to be pretty nice of material, to me, but my knowledge about turquoise is just what I learned from the internet when I found the bag 😅 |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 17, 2024 7:19:56 GMT -5
Slabbing is enjoyable and all, but if the goal is increasing the value, keep in mind the value of the rough vs slabs is profitable with more expensive and desirable materials in short supply, but with basic materials it just makes the saw dirty and the material a little easier to store when it won't sell. Need to be picky what you put in the saw, when in doubt I just split it to see what's inside, if it looks desirable I clean the oil off, glue the cut ends to boards, and slab away. If it's ok but not great it becomes faced rough and sold as is. Turquoise sells by weight, and the mark up for slabs is not worth it, most people who work it will prefer to use their own saw, same with any more high end gem type material, especially porous stuff that can be stained by oil. Windowing a small part of a turquoise nugget to show that it will polish is about the only thing I would do. My tentative plan is slab and sell most the material that are more desirable. More common materials, such as the Brazilian agates or snowflake obsidian, will be used for making various “crafting” things. I have dreams of being able to work the turquoise myself, someday, but I tend to be terrified of wasting things! A lot of it already has polished windows, but since it’s all jumbled together I can’t tell what is what *sighs*. This guy didn’t buy a lot of expensive materials, as far as I can tell (was more common at the time), but he also didn’t seem to buy low grade, either. One of the turquoise labels I found was “natural Evan’s turquoise” and not seeing obvious signs of treatment on most nuggets. Also found “robin egg” label. It LOOKS to be pretty nice of material, to me, but my knowledge about turquoise is just what I learned from the internet when I found the bag 😅 I think turquoise is the hardest to identify. Some is obvious. Most isn't. A bonafide named turquoise is obviously worth more. |
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lapidary1234
spending too much on rocks
"If you like rocks you can't be all bad!!" ~ old timer quote
Member since October 2021
Posts: 293
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Post by lapidary1234 on Jul 19, 2024 19:27:25 GMT -5
I like my slabs a bit on the thicker side...5/16 or 8mm. I usually do 6 turns on my frantom so just a tick over 5/16 iirc. Although if I get an extra thick slab I like it as well for the high done effect!
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 21, 2024 21:36:34 GMT -5
Slabbing is enjoyable and all, but if the goal is increasing the value, keep in mind the value of the rough vs slabs is profitable with more expensive and desirable materials in short supply, but with basic materials it just makes the saw dirty and the material a little easier to store when it won't sell. Need to be picky what you put in the saw, when in doubt I just split it to see what's inside, if it looks desirable I clean the oil off, glue the cut ends to boards, and slab away. If it's ok but not great it becomes faced rough and sold as is. Turquoise sells by weight, and the mark up for slabs is not worth it, most people who work it will prefer to use their own saw, same with any more high end gem type material, especially porous stuff that can be stained by oil. Windowing a small part of a turquoise nugget to show that it will polish is about the only thing I would do. Winner winner chicken dinner advice right here... IMHO... |
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