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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 12, 2024 16:05:40 GMT -5
I really don't have any more opinion to add on the pricing which hasn't already been said. I was really drawn to the stones themselves...which is a really good thing. Great work on these!
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Oct 12, 2024 17:42:38 GMT -5
Personally I think all your prices are high. I sell similar size pendants that I hand make with 20ga sterling backs and pure silver bezels for less. Just seems high to me for jewelry assembled from factory made parts. Or maybe I am underpriced. A friend sells mostly on FB and he hand makes the settings as I do and cuts his own stones and he gets half to three quarters of your prices (on the larger sizes) and he sells all he makes. Of course if you've found a market that will bear your prices more power to you!
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lapidary1234
spending too much on rocks
"If you like rocks you can't be all bad!!" ~ old timer quote
Member since October 2021
Posts: 293
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Post by lapidary1234 on Oct 16, 2024 2:37:42 GMT -5
If I'm being honest I have to agree with gunsil. Those prices seem high. I understand where you're coming from between the time spent between sourcing the material, slabbing, then cabbing however just be glad you aren't hand making the settings as well. At the same time I bought a pound of river crossing agate (Argentina condor agate)that was very expensive ($85/lb). I got 6 slabs out of one rock and have two more to cut. I have seen custom handmade jewelry post and sell on ebay/Facebook that is entirely hand made and they usually ask around $125-200. Most informed buyers know about calibrated settings. A quick search I'm finding 25x18 sterling silver settings for between $10-20, smaller ones cheaper. At the end of the day it boils down to how much money you have invested in the materials (stones/settings/chains) and how much you value your time. I average around half an hour to make a cabachon so if I can get $35-40 each I am satisfied with that wage. But it also depends on your market and customers. If the market can sustain it they will sell. I personally only try to sell cabs I want to get rid of so I don't want them hanging around a long time either. Finally, I don't see any dendrites in the agates (or any of them). Dendrites are the "tree branch" looking patterns sometimes mistakenly called "moss agate". Not saying they aren't nice quality agates and very well could come from Indonesia, but I would have guessed they were Botswana or Montana agates. Best of luck, and for your sake hopefully I'm wrong but figured I should chime in and explain my reasoning. If you take a look at sterling silver cabachons on ebay you will see ridiculously low priced stuff that makes it discouraging to us American lapidaries. There just isn't any way to compete with foreign labor costs. I think this is what the other person was saying about make sure and advertise the rarity and make sure your customers are familiar with the material. I have heard etsy is a good platform to sell unique stones that people may search for specifically. I personally haven't figured out the selling side of lapidary yet and do it simply for my love of rocks. One other avenue you can try if you don't do silversmiths is wire wrapping. Wire wrapping allows any shape or size cabachons so you can make free-form "designer" cabs which usually sell for more just because they aren't standard shapes. Alot of calibrated cabachons are actually made on automated machines now. It would cost a small fortune to get setup with that type of machine(s) but once its setup they crank out calibrated cabs. This is how a majority of the Chinese cabs are made. I believe they use cad/cnc machines to do skulls etc. A trained eye can spot them across the room. Anyway, not trying to be intentionally harsh just honest. Please don't take offense
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Oct 16, 2024 4:03:08 GMT -5
If I'm being honest I have to agree with gunsil. Those prices seem high. I understand where you're coming from between the time spent between sourcing the material, slabbing, then cabbing however just be glad you aren't hand making the settings as well. At the same time I bought a pound of river crossing agate (Argentina condor agate)that was very expensive ($85/lb). I got 6 slabs out of one rock and have two more to cut. I have seen custom handmade jewelry post and sell on ebay/Facebook that is entirely hand made and they usually ask around $125-200. Most informed buyers know about calibrated settings. A quick search I'm finding 25x18 sterling silver settings for between $10-20, smaller ones cheaper. At the end of the day it boils down to how much money you have invested in the materials (stones/settings/chains) and how much you value your time. I average around half an hour to make a cabachon so if I can get $35-40 each I am satisfied with that wage. But it also depends on your market and customers. If the market can sustain it they will sell. I personally only try to sell cabs I want to get rid of so I don't want them hanging around a long time either. Finally, I don't see any dendrites in the agates (or any of them). Dendrites are the "tree branch" looking patterns sometimes mistakenly called "moss agate". Not saying they aren't nice quality agates and very well could come from Indonesia, but I would have guessed they were Botswana or Montana agates. Best of luck, and for your sake hopefully I'm wrong but figured I should chime in and explain my reasoning. If you take a look at sterling silver cabachons on ebay you will see ridiculously low priced stuff that makes it discouraging to us American lapidaries. There just isn't any way to compete with foreign labor costs. I think this is what the other person was saying about make sure and advertise the rarity and make sure your customers are familiar with the material. I have heard etsy is a good platform to sell unique stones that people may search for specifically. I personally haven't figured out the selling side of lapidary yet and do it simply for my love of rocks. One other avenue you can try if you don't do silversmiths is wire wrapping. Wire wrapping allows any shape or size cabachons so you can make free-form "designer" cabs which usually sell for more just because they aren't standard shapes. Alot of calibrated cabachons are actually made on automated machines now. It would cost a small fortune to get setup with that type of machine(s) but once its setup they crank out calibrated cabs. This is how a majority of the Chinese cabs are made. I believe they use cad/cnc machines to do skulls etc. A trained eye can spot them across the room. Anyway, not trying to be intentionally harsh just honest. Please don't take offense lapidary1234 no offense taken I guess you missed the part where I said these are cast calibrated settings. They are poured into a mold and are thicker, heavier then your average mounting I made note that I forgot to weigh them the mountings. There are Montana agates, laguna agates and yes that is dendritic agate from Indonesia not all of it has a dendritic pattern this is the first piece I cut & slabbed it didn’t have any dendrites in it. The rest does have dendritic in it. I also mentioned that the small piece does have a small cats eye at the bottom of the stone the bigger unset ones from that same stone have full cats eyes in them. Like Tela rockjunkie also mentioned I could even go a little higher. I agree with her 100% I already tested my pricing and yup these prices are a little low. People seem to love my work and even more when they can see it in hand. Those prices were no problem. And was told they would pay a little more per piece. Those chains are on the heavier side to support the weight of the heavy mountings and bigger stones. Average price was around $30.00 each they were Italian made, the spool is by far cheaper but I am not setup yet to make my own mountings. I get were you guys are coming from on the standard mountings making them your self is by far cheaper. One last thing I don’t see any calibrated stones being shown on here only free form. It’s much harder cutting a calibrated stone to fit in a calibrated mounting because off a hair to small or to big they don’t snap in nor can you really get a tight fitting stone mine snapped into the mounting then tightened. If your dome on the stone is off in a calibrated mounting the stone will look lop sided to. As far as selling on eBay or Etsy no thanks I’ll leave it at that. To many Karen’s selling fake stuff stating facet material is something it’s not the same with cabbing material. Or extremely over priced. Take those people calling honey or lemon citren is actually just yellow calcite. Even caught someone pulling that garbage at one of our gem shows. $30.00 per fake stone for a $3.00 piece of calcite. I was quick to point that out to a couple who were actually selling gems that didn’t go over to well for that jerk. Me being a bigger jerk while he was getting reamed out for false advertising I was checking his other stones. After his brow beating the woman asked me if I saw any other shady stuff on his table. Yup 3 other flats he was in for a rough day of selling that show. Of course I hung around close by his table and shuffled customers to the table next to him selling real stuff at good prices. That’s what you get for trying to rip people off!! Hey in my defense I had to earn my discount.
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,167
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Post by rockbrain on Oct 16, 2024 9:11:19 GMT -5
All of my pendants come with a free neck cord or chain, a box and a polishing cloth. I've found that a lot of people already have silver chains, so with the silver pendants I include a cheap chain and then offer sterling chains as an add on. Helps to make the price tag a little more attractive. I agree with others you're in the right area with these. Those look like nice chains you're including.
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,167
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Post by rockbrain on Oct 16, 2024 9:16:09 GMT -5
I think the best way to compete with the foreign made stuff is to not try to compete with it. I often tell my customers that the stuff they see at some of the other booths is made by what is basically child slave labor. Everything in my booth is handcrafted by me or my wife. If you undervalue your work, so will your customer.
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Oct 16, 2024 9:32:59 GMT -5
All of my pendants come with a free neck cord or chain, a box and a polishing cloth. I've found that a lot of people already have silver chains, so with the silver pendants I include a cheap chain and then offer sterling chains as an add on. Helps to make the price tag a little more attractive. I agree with others you're in the right area with these. Those look like nice chains you're including. They are nice chains
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Oct 16, 2024 9:38:30 GMT -5
A ton of foreign stuff is 90% run of the mill everyday cheap cabs like golden tiger is pretty cheap to buy in rough and most of the time cabs run from $10.00 to maybe $15.00 for bigger ones and that’s on the high side. Black onyx is another one prices are low.
Most of the time cheap chains or mountings are a base metal with silver plating that over time flakes away even when not in use
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 16, 2024 9:51:18 GMT -5
I think the best way to compete with the foreign made stuff is to not try to compete with it. I often tell my customers that the stuff they see at some of the other booths is made by what is basically child slave labor. Everything in my booth is handcrafted by me or my wife. If you undervalue your work, so will your customer. I agree 100%. If you walk around a Rock and Mineral show you see a good number of vendors selling the same items that are clearly not made by them or anyone here in this country. I try to keep everything on my tables limited to items I cut and polished and I always make a point of telling potential customers that. One exception is the spheres I sell that were made by a good friend and I am selling them for his widow. It's not my intention to criticize anyone who is putting in the effort to make a living by selling overseas items. It's a lot of work doing shows and I have talked to some of these folks who do 20 shows a year. More power to them. Hey, this forum is made up of folks who make their own material to keep and admire, to sell, or to give away. Nothing wrong with stating that to people, it's a talent to be proud of and not be hesitant to acknowledge that. Henry
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Oct 16, 2024 10:34:33 GMT -5
I think the best way to compete with the foreign made stuff is to not try to compete with it. I often tell my customers that the stuff they see at some of the other booths is made by what is basically child slave labor. Everything in my booth is handcrafted by me or my wife. If you undervalue your work, so will your customer. I agree 100%. If you walk around a Rock and Mineral show you see a good number of vendors selling the same items that are clearly not made by them or anyone here in this country. I try to keep everything on my tables limited to items I cut and polished and I always make a point of telling potential customers that. One exception is the spheres I sell that were made by a good friend and I am selling them for his widow. It's not my intention to criticize anyone who is putting in the effort to make a living by selling overseas items. It's a lot of work doing shows and I have talked to some of these folks who do 20 shows a year. More power to them. Hey, this forum is made up of folks who make their own material to keep and admire, to sell, or to give away. Nothing wrong with stating that to people, it's a talent to be proud of and not be hesitant to acknowledge that. Henry HankRocks Here Here I Agree 100% It is a talented skill How big are the spheres your selling? Rutile or smoky quartz, maybe nice malachite sphere? Don’t hurt to ask? Don’t be bashful a few pickers wouldn’t hurt either! Just curious to see them
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Post by whalecottagedesigns on Oct 16, 2024 20:30:43 GMT -5
I like the pendants and the chains, very cool! We are still in the learning about cutting, materials and how tools work phase of our journey, have not got to the selling part yet, so am not able to give constructive experienced advice.
But looking at things in general, I think the power plays are bragging rights of "handmade by someone local who's actual name you know" and also the "if something goes wrong with it, they may help you fix it" bits. That is where you can justify charging whatever you think is good for you, and good also for the buyer.
Best of good luck to you! I know the selling part is freaking me out a bit. A friend who commissioned a bunch of pendants for her family said she knew I would charge her nothing, so instead of money she did a barter trade for some physiotherapy for my wife :-)
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lapidary1234
spending too much on rocks
"If you like rocks you can't be all bad!!" ~ old timer quote
Member since October 2021
Posts: 293
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Post by lapidary1234 on Oct 17, 2024 22:28:01 GMT -5
I think the best way to compete with the foreign made stuff is to not try to compete with it. I often tell my customers that the stuff they see at some of the other booths is made by what is basically child slave labor. Everything in my booth is handcrafted by me or my wife. If you undervalue your work, so will your customer. I agree 100%. If you walk around a Rock and Mineral show you see a good number of vendors selling the same items that are clearly not made by them or anyone here in this country. I try to keep everything on my tables limited to items I cut and polished and I always make a point of telling potential customers that. One exception is the spheres I sell that were made by a good friend and I am selling them for his widow. It's not my intention to criticize anyone who is putting in the effort to make a living by selling overseas items. It's a lot of work doing shows and I have talked to some of these folks who do 20 shows a year. More power to them. Hey, this forum is made up of folks who make their own material to keep and admire, to sell, or to give away. Nothing wrong with stating that to people, it's a talent to be proud of and not be hesitant to acknowledge that. Henry I agree wholeheartedly. Not my intention to criticize anyone, especially trying to navigate and make a living in this economy. What you say about folks whose full time gig is selling rocks and minerals is especially true. After a few years I'm sure even the most dedicate folks will run short on supply and have to restock somehow. I visited a rock shop on the north coast of Lake superior (beaver Bay rock shop. If you're ever nearby check it out, they have an AAA grade museum right in the shop.), that shop was stocked full of all the overseas wholesale material you see everywhere. It dawned on me that this shop has been around probably 50 years and they most certainly can't keep it stocked full of lake superior agates. It was a lot of towers, spheres, tumbles, etc. What threw me off about that shop though was the drastic change in prices between the wholesale material and the local stuff. Towers and spheres went from being moderately priced (tourist area) to the section of Lake superior agates (low/medium tumbles were around $10 each and nice medium size rough agates were $100-500) and then handmade thompsonite/greenstone/lsa cabs in jewelry settings were all $100-300 if not more. dreamrocks again, I was not trying to be harsh, just trying to give my opinion in hopes you aren't letdown if you have trouble selling your stuff. If the market can bear it people will buy and it will reinforce those prices and they will work their way to all of us! Also, kudos to you if you are casting those settings yourself. I'm sure that is a time consuming process. Regarding making calibrated cabachons I just make them a bit oversize and trim them down at the end. What you say about having an even dome is true, a calibrated setting will amplify any unevenness. I actually just bought templates of a wide array of shapes. Most of the shaped cabs I make come from some template or another. I do enjoy a good free-form cab too though. When doing a free-form cab I try to let the stone dictate the form it wants to take. This has been an informative thread and if anything maybe a lot of us are under pricing our work Edit: meant to quote this part about full time vendors:) "It's not my intention to criticize anyone who is putting in the effort to make a living by selling overseas items. It's a lot of work doing shows and I have talked to some of these folks who do 20 shows a year. More power to them."
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Oct 18, 2024 4:10:22 GMT -5
I agree 100%. If you walk around a Rock and Mineral show you see a good number of vendors selling the same items that are clearly not made by them or anyone here in this country. I try to keep everything on my tables limited to items I cut and polished and I always make a point of telling potential customers that. One exception is the spheres I sell that were made by a good friend and I am selling them for his widow. It's not my intention to criticize anyone who is putting in the effort to make a living by selling overseas items. It's a lot of work doing shows and I have talked to some of these folks who do 20 shows a year. More power to them. Hey, this forum is made up of folks who make their own material to keep and admire, to sell, or to give away. Nothing wrong with stating that to people, it's a talent to be proud of and not be hesitant to acknowledge that. Henry I agree wholeheartedly. Not my intention to criticize anyone, especially trying to navigate and make a living in this economy. What you say about folks whose full time gig is selling rocks and minerals is especially true. After a few years I'm sure even the most dedicate folks will run short on supply and have to restock somehow. I visited a rock shop on the north coast of Lake superior (beaver Bay rock shop. If you're ever nearby check it out, they have an AAA grade museum right in the shop.), that shop was stocked full of all the overseas wholesale material you see everywhere. It dawned on me that this shop has been around probably 50 years and they most certainly can't keep it stocked full of lake superior agates. It was a lot of towers, spheres, tumbles, etc. What threw me off about that shop though was the drastic change in prices between the wholesale material and the local stuff. Towers and spheres went from being moderately priced (tourist area) to the section of Lake superior agates (low/medium tumbles were around $10 each and nice medium size rough agates were $100-500) and then handmade thompsonite/greenstone/lsa cabs in jewelry settings were all $100-300 if not more. dreamrocks again, I was not trying to be harsh, just trying to give my opinion in hopes you aren't letdown if you have trouble selling your stuff. If the market can bear it people will buy and it will reinforce those prices and they will work their way to all of us! Also, kudos to you if you are casting those settings yourself. I'm sure that is a time consuming process. Regarding making calibrated cabachons I just make them a bit oversize and trim them down at the end. What you say about having an even dome is true, a calibrated setting will amplify any unevenness. I actually just bought templates of a wide array of shapes. Most of the shaped cabs I make come from some template or another. I do enjoy a good free-form cab too though. When doing a free-form cab I try to let the stone dictate the form it wants to take. This has been an informative thread and if anything maybe a lot of us are under pricing our work Edit: meant to quote this part about full time vendors:) "It's not my intention to criticize anyone who is putting in the effort to make a living by selling overseas items. It's a lot of work doing shows and I have talked to some of these folks who do 20 shows a year. More power to them." lapidary1234 like I said I am not offended at all. What I don’t or ever will agree with is giving my work away! Or loosing money it takes money to make money! When figuring a price for Anyone’s hand crafted pieces one needs to add up the following 1. Price per pound of material (rough rock) 2. You also need to add a few bucks to for any shipping cost of the rough rock to you. There’s a couple ways to do this I think possibly the best way might be take the price per pound then divide the number of pounds bought and add that number to the cost per single pound. Example 3 pounds of one type of rock, then the other 2 pounds for another pound of rocks is figuring the price per 5 pounds. That’s the easy part, the hard part is figuring out from there is how to pay yourself for slabbing, then shaping, finally is the finished stone polished & set. 3. Then the cost of premade chains and don’t forget to add a few bucks for shipping added to the chains and or premade mountings. Either way once you sell an item your going to eventually have to restock your inventory at some point. 4. Don’t forget any packaging of the item(jewelry boxes) presentation is everything whether in store, gem show or online. 5. If mailing that cost would need to be added and discussed with customer at the very end. All this adds up to the final finished items price. And these are prices & pricing for premade chains & mountings for a set stone. The above mentioned is workable up to the point of making your own mountings, chains are a real time consumer if you ask me. Making your own mountings you need to figure the total price of metals bought. Add a few bucks for shipping costs. How many mountings can be made from what you bought, will your prices cover restocking metals? Or are you going to loose money making your own mountings by not adding shipping costs and restocking prices are changing almost daily now. Don’t forget there’s other consumables that also at some time need to be replaced. These are what I can remember right off the top of my head that the small business administration taught me. Spreadsheets are real handy keeping stuff organized like bought & sold stuff on hand, etc, ect. “Remember at the end of the year you need to show a profit not a huge loss!” It’s the people that are Not doing this breakdown of actual prices and loosing money by selling underpriced items that are giving the real skilled lapidary a bad name and calling them out for over pricing. In reality it’s those undereducated ones giving there work away and loosing money and just haven’t done the breakdown making it harder for us who do the breakdown. If they done the breakdown they would be shocked at how much money they are loosing and just giving away there work. All I can say to that is keep pushing that electroplated garbage and watch your customers disappear. While my customers just keep growing. In business your best friend is repeat customers and word of mouth. That really helps cut down on advertising and keeps you in business.
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Nov 2, 2024 17:28:47 GMT -5
Cheaper to buy bulk chain on the roll and make your own chains but you have to solder a jump ring on one end.
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