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Post by victor1941 on Oct 23, 2024 19:18:49 GMT -5
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 23, 2024 19:25:58 GMT -5
Have you had good experience with the sodium silicate?
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Post by victor1941 on Oct 23, 2024 19:48:49 GMT -5
Sodium silicate works extremely well when applied properly. I brush it on both sides and adhere both pieces together. Hold together if the stone migrates until movement stops. Check after several hours and fill any cracks. Wait a day and then cut. I use a 1/2" art brush and wash the brush with liquid dish soap-also wash hands if necessary. Thin pieces also come off without cracking after several days in the water/soap solution. Don't rush the process. I found this process was very good for the last piece if thin plume was cut.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Oct 23, 2024 21:52:41 GMT -5
I concur with Victor. It's absolutely the way to go. Many (if not most) people who slab use sodium silicate solution.
I don't use a brush. I set the rough down onto the wooden block, which is usually a 2x4 or a 2x6. If the rough doesn't cover the entire surface of the wood, I take a pencil and mark its edges.
Then I use a teaspoon, dipping it into the solution (usually straight down), and pulling it out. Sodium silicate solution is about the consistency of honey, so a fair amount comes out on the spoon. I distribute the solution with the spoon as best I can, covering as much of the contact area that I can, but realizing that the weight of the rough will also distribute it. Some rough or non-contact areas might need a little more.
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,120
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Post by rockbrain on Oct 23, 2024 22:00:52 GMT -5
I've been using wood glue with good results. Better to get the non waterproof stuff. Sometimes I soak in water, sometimes I cut off the last piece. Haven't had a failure yet.
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johnthor1963
starting to spend too much on rocks
Cattle dogs rock
Member since June 2023
Posts: 234
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Post by johnthor1963 on Oct 25, 2024 5:30:10 GMT -5
Rockbrain your using a wood glue in your slab saw is that correct? Would the glue you use be like tite bond 2 or something similar to that? I just bought a slab saw and getting up to speed with it and getting it dialed in is interesting. Your wood glue doesn’t get soft with the lubricant while cutting slabs? I m so new to this I thought everyone was epoxying them to pieces of wood. Thx for sharing
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 25, 2024 8:03:00 GMT -5
I have been using the wood glue as shown below. I got this from an earlier thread on the forum about the subject where there was a lot of discussion. Always looking for the next great thing. Wood glue works well but I have to soak it a long time and usually use a chisel to get the last part of the rock off, then sand down the remaining glue.  |
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 25, 2024 8:06:56 GMT -5
I've been using wood glue with good results. Better to get the non waterproof stuff. Sometimes I soak in water, sometimes I cut off the last piece. Haven't had a failure yet. I agree with you about using non-waterproof of Indoor rated wood glue. The gluing department here recently glued some larger pieces and must have grabbed Outdoor rated wood glue, they were in the water for about 2 weeks with no sign of softening. Finally had to soak them in acetone in a sealed container, it did the trick. Have never had a failure. |
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Post by victor1941 on Oct 25, 2024 9:12:31 GMT -5
Chris1956-I stopped using interior wood glue because of the reason you described. Sometimes a piece just didn't want to come off. When I use Loctite PH adhesive on a rough surface I will sometimes use a chisel with light pressure under the adhesive edge to help remove the butt end. If it is a good piece I may use clean heated water and more dishwashing liquid soap to speed the project.
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 25, 2024 10:46:46 GMT -5
Chris1956-I stopped using interior wood glue because of the reason you described. Sometimes a piece just didn't want to come off. When I use Loctite PH adhesive on a rough surface I will sometimes use a chisel with light pressure under the adhesive edge to help remove the butt end. If it is a good piece I may use clean heated water and more dishwashing liquid soap to speed the project. Which exact Loctite product is that? Thanks. |
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Post by victor1941 on Oct 25, 2024 16:09:06 GMT -5
Loctite PL3 for smaller stones and wood blocks and PL max for 4" x 6" wood block on larger material. I cut in mineral oil and remove stone in soapy water. You can clean your hands or tools in mineral oil.
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 25, 2024 16:18:57 GMT -5
Loctite PL3 for smaller stones and wood blocks and PL max for 4" x 6" wood block on larger material. I cut in mineral oil and remove stone in soapy water. You can clean your hands or tools in mineral oil. Thanks for the information. |
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Post by rmf on Oct 26, 2024 19:46:54 GMT -5
victor1941 & opalpyrexia so to be clear. Clean dry wood. sodium silicate dries to rock and wood. OK got it. Since the saw is running in oil the wood is use once and discard? Or do you soak the wood is sodium silicate to saturation let dry and then attach the rock. when done soak rock and wood (last bit of rock) in water to remove. Then reuse wood?
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Post by opalpyrexia on Oct 26, 2024 20:33:57 GMT -5
victor1941 & opalpyrexia so to be clear. Clean dry wood. sodium silicate dries to rock and wood. OK got it. Since the saw is running in oil the wood is use once and discard? Or do you soak the wood is sodium silicate to saturation let dry and then attach the rock. when done soak rock and wood (last bit of rock) in water to remove. Then reuse wood?
I not sure if I have ever reused the wood after slabbing. I think that your idea of coating the wood with sodium silicate (water glass) to seal it has potential. I can see the value of a thin coat on the entire bonding surface, as well as the ends of the wood where oil absorption would be greater. I wouldn't bother for the other sides.
If you start using water glass, be sure to slab within, say, a week or 10 days at most from applying it.. It will absorb moisture from the air and having your rough separate from the wood in the middle of slabbing is not good, of course.
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,120
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Post by rockbrain on Oct 28, 2024 9:04:13 GMT -5
I've read about using white glue like Elmer's too. I've never tried it. Sometimes for the last cut I just cut through the wood right along the edge of the rock. I haven't noticed anything adverse with the blade after cutting through wood. Your rock is available right away with this method.
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Post by Peruano on Oct 28, 2024 10:21:57 GMT -5
The secret to wood glue:
1.dont use super water resistant.
2. Cut the remaining rock off the stub by sawing the wood 1/4 or so away so that only a thin layer of wood is bound to the rock. It will soak off because its thin and water will penetrate.
I use a hand wood saw with the stub held in my bench vice. You can use your rock saw but its slow and may be neede more for a fun cut and not a slab remnant rescue. I used to use my reciprocating saw but its too violent
My hand saw work is a part of my rigorous aerobic exercise regime and takes only a minute or two.
An overnight soak of the now thin wood layer nearly always works but depending on the wood used for the stub some float off in 2 or 3 hrs and glue scrapes off like cake icing.
The one frustration I have with soaking off very thinstone slabs is that the sometimes fracture because the wood swells in strange ways. But thats only for sper thins that you might want for something transparent or light.
Everyone has their own method .
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Post by victor1941 on Oct 28, 2024 17:28:31 GMT -5
The problem I was having was not on thick cuts but on thins I was cutting from Woodward red plume because of fractures that developed after the piece was cut and placed in soapy water. I think Peruano nailed the problem because of uneven swell. Sodium silicate somehow eliminated the problem. I used 2"x2" inch wood and coated the end with solution and then floated the slab on, dried and then cut on a trim saw with a thin blade the next day. I then used soapy water for release.
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