Why we fight

Geez, Shain. Just trying to think of all the countries we have colonized?? Germany, France, Japan, maybe the Philippines?? These were all countries we "did battle" in years ago. Seems to me they are all doing fine without us now.

Too much money spent on defense.... I'll agreed with that one. I do wonder how much 9/11 cost this country money wise, not to mention the lives lost then and continuing now. I guess I tend to prefer the fight taking place on foreign soil rather than our own.

Senator and Representatives? That's simple! They are for the most part Lawyers!! What would you expect? Set our legal system up so you always have to hire one to do anything. That way if and when they get caught with their pants down they will still have a very lucrative way to make money!

Trying to not write this so that it appears RED or BLUE! Everyone likes their "home team". Lets all try not to insult the other guys team. That is never very productive. I am not going to change my team and I'm sure you don't want to change yours!! If you keep that in mind this thread can say at a much more civil level!! Please!!!

Take care, Bill

Well I don't know exactly what I think about the war. I do think the question was it right to go, and is it right to stay are independent. I think we should support those who are at risk, even as we do our civic duty and question, criticize, improve, or even dissent with policy.

But Bill, I think you mistake the European countries we invaded (France) or occupied for a time (Germany) with the place we really colonized in the true sense of the word colonial. Most of Central and some parts of South America - look at the aftermath down there of what American corporations did treating the place like a plantation and American foreign policy backing repressive regimes when working people tried to say "enough." Or the many American Indian Nations - sad story there. OR how about the independent nation of Hawaii, we just took it over. Or Cuba - if we had pulled out like we promised after we invaded, then Castro would never have come to power decades later. Just like the aftermath of European colonization in Africa and Aisa has left long scars and social problems, we in the USA have to own some of the aftermath of our colonizing behavior of the rest of the hemisphere.

Just like the overindulgent parent risks ultimately doing great disservice to their child, so too does the citizen with blind allegiance risk ultimately doing more harm than good.

The whole thing sounds like Viet Nam all over. I was there, and I agree with cpdad. Same thing, except we got to see the news casts. I never did figuire why what we did, and what was shown was unrelated.
War is an insane waste of life, materials, philosophies, and everything in between. Lives pro and con, are inalterably affected. I wish I had some answers. I feel however, the world according to Doc might not turn out the way I see it sitting here contemplating.
It is good to speak though. Unless when some one next to me is hungry and wanting to learn how to get food, and I am too busy talking.

I usually don't get into much discussion in these kinds of threads as they tend to get nasty or take 180 and get so far off topic my head spins. They start off about global warming and end up about gay rights. I like to discuss politics as long as it stays civil. If not, there are better places for me to spend my time.

I agree with you, Daniel, 100% that the "American corporation's" have done more to harm the way the rest of the world looks at the USA than anything. When a company sets up business in another country and treats the people there like crap we all take the hit for it!! South America is a very good example of this. Course the CIA sure didn't help much!

As far as the middle east. Most if not all of their problems come as an end result of their religions. Man, if they really followed what their religion was based on I just can't believe they would do the things they do!! *Tongue in cheek*- if all the peoples of the world were atheist's it sure would be a peaceful place!!

With Iraq I wouldn't presume to know what was the best thing to do. I just don't have the knowledge and I really don't think many people do. I just have to put a little faith in those in power and hope that they do the right thing.

As far as our people over there, they have my support 100%!! They put their life's on the line for their country. There are not many people that do that on a day to day basis!!

I like the way you think, Shain. People that just follow the "party line" be it Red or Blue are just sheep (not that sheep are bad!!). To get locked into a single way of thinking not good. Reminds me of the saying about a person that does the exact same thing over and over, each time expecting something different to happen!! Bill

Hey Doc! I too am from the "Senior graduation trip to SE Asia" generation. Have you read much of how the people over there are doing now. All those years and years of fighting. This country then that country trying to win a war there. If I am not mistaken I think that their economy is having more of an effect as to what is controlling the country than anything/anyone has in the last 100 years. More and more tourism, who would have thunk it!! You sure notice that China hasn't messed with Hong Kong much. They know enough not to kill that golden goose!! Take care, Bill

I wonder if I knew your father in law. The song sounds the same. If he had a gun, .50 caliber and up, I wonder. If he had a rifle, below .50 caliber, he was either before or after. Probably after. I doubt he could hit between the eyes at 2500yds, but if he is like me, real close.
I am building my wife a Palma Rifle, in 6-08 Ackley Improved for punching holes in paper at 600yds with iron sights. She is pretty excited. She really wants to take up the sport. In Palma, we measure shots in 1/4" groups at 600yds. Her rifle at that range should be able to put 5rds in a 3/8" circle off a bench rest. Like a Rail Gun. It will probably take her the rest of her life to get into 10" at that range. The cases are custom. She will have to make her own. She will have to swage her bullets. There are no manufacturers who make any components. It is a single shot. Even if it is stolen, no one could use it but her. Her name is on the barrel, the rounds are unavailable, and the stock fits only her. Even the sights are custom for her only.
At these matches, you have 20 minutes to fire off 20 rounds. You have to have breath control, body control, neural control, understand ballistics inside and out, wind and thermal effects, barrel harmonics, thermal interaction with sight pictures. It is pretty involved. The rifle itself weighs 18lbs. Not your classic assault weapon. The barrel has been cryo dipped for heat expansion. It literally changes the steel. She hopes someday to compete in the Creedmore.
The bullets are solid copper, hydrolic swaged.
Not your K-Mart blue light special.

Its true, When i post stuff to a local group about opinions. I often get shot down with replies about , "why don't you just shut up", or all you do is talk about what were doing wrong". And in the last case, a person engage me directly, when my point was about sharing your experience or story to further a real discussion. IN the end, we had to take it off group, because all we were doing was calling each other names. He finally did tell me a story and got my point, and apologized because he was acting like a child(though he was 54). Since then we have not called each names. But i also really post to that group anymore because people don't ask. They only shout.

This is a generational issue. And i don't take merit from any movie. But, when a movie used factual things like D.I. farewell address. I cant help but ask myself again. Yes, it bias because thats what the movie wants you to do. But it gives more merit than wondering why it is so.

I mean, i want to believe and support my president. Even when i never voted for him. But does that mean he can lie and lie, and lie, and lie. And i should still respect him? For anyone that respects a liar, please raise your hands. Because our president has lied, more than once.

The point about our current war is pacifism. because we are the creators of it. We are not, and this is a fact. The victims of this war. WE ARE ITS INSTUTION.

And another thing that secures it for me revolves around my Granddad on my mothers side. He was a Well decorated Lutienite of the Second world war. But i know one thing, what it made him. He was a very quite man when i was growing up. But i know differently for my mom and her sisters who he was when they were growing up. Lets just say, all his kids ran away from home at least once. And is CPS was around back then, he would of lost his children very fast because of his anger.

And when he passed the military pestered us for over 8 months because they wanted to lay his body in Arlington. Well, that is really the only thing in his will. Not to be buried there. Why is that? I still ask myself and my mother and aunts about why. UNfoructnally he never talked about why, and from what very little info the military would release on his career had to do with him giving testimony during a court marital of a friend. There were some other details about who he saved a building a French Diplomats and had to disarm a bomb when he wasn't skilled for that. Which was part of the court marital, because the guy that was skilled was the one being tried.

History is important, because its really the only Culture Americans have. Outside of being a warful nation. But the one thing that rings more true than ever for me during current events is the facts. And we are allowing our leaders to do and say what ever they want. Allowing themselves high pay raises, trampling the constitution and oh ya. Don't forget about the whole Delay thing. A Christian conservative who was forcing women to have abortions, and using slave labor all for the sake of a dollar.

Sure, i have the freedom to be an ass and attack anyone i feel its my right to do. But i know that wont solve or allow for any progression. So again, i extend the idea to always look in at oneself before looking at others. And to not be so afraid like your government wants you to be. And to ask yourself why we fight. Because its not about our freedom or another's freedom under known political screwup. Its about whats right and whats wrong.

And i feel very passionate about the fact we Americans create excuses after the fact.
A winner will win a war before the attack begins. A loser will go to war, and seek to win it.(thats a quote from someone, its not exact but its the best i could remember) Preventing measures start at home, not abroad. once we can calm the hate within ourself here, then we can worry about freeing other people around the world.

But current events will only get worse when our war machine is allowed to continue to trample the rights of every human. Not just Americans. Because again, if we are truly doing right over there, more terrorist would of not been created. And we would not be building 9 new military bases over there. I am a strategist, and that only means one thing people. We are there to stay, we are not going anywhere, when we told them and ourself that is not the case. Why else wont our leaders even talk about that? because if they do i think a New American revolution would take hold. because if a leader knows outright its will be a lie, ands its so obvious. They wont talk about it. They will try and stay as far away from a sentence of it so not to lose their high paying job. Please wake up. Am i dreaming?