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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 13, 2005 23:57:25 GMT -5
Raging newbie here. I'm polishing a mixed batch of mostly quartz, amethyst, agates, and jaspers. The "grit pack" from that Rock Shed (great guys, BTW) includes 1 lb each of 60/90, 120/220, 500, and Aluminum Oxide Polish.
I notice a lot of people here mention running a cycle of a "pre-pre-polish" like Tripoli or 1000 git prior to the polish. Is this routinely done?
A secondary question, I saw a recommendation to put a couple drops of dish soap into with each cycle of grit. This just made a bunch of foam and I'm not sure of the purpose. Does anyone have any opinions on this?
Anyway, I am taking lots of pictures as I go along and will give you guys a nice run down when I am down. Thanks!
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Post by sandsman1 on Feb 14, 2005 0:15:21 GMT -5
hi voodoo Tripoli or 1000 grit just gets the rock alittle smoother befor polish yes it helps but no you dont have to doit ,, but if you want to give them alittle tweek it does make a dif.
i dont put the soap in with the grit but i do put some in after a rinse between fine and polish and let it run for an hr or so and it cleans the rocks and the barrel so you get a clean start for the next grit or polish ,, it helps stop contamination
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Post by puppie96 on Feb 14, 2005 2:02:30 GMT -5
I believe the extra step improves the results. After it is completed you can really feel the difference in the rocks. With my vibe tumbler, after 24 hours or so they look just short of polished.
I use 1000 grit in the barrel tumblers. In the vibe, I use "Iolox" which is a Raytech proprietary product that they sell as part of the starter kit with the vibe. I just love this stuff, it works in a hurry and it really does give a lovely fine finish to the rocks. I believe that this is a sapphire powder or something close. Only thing weird about it is that it becomes a very dark brown/black color and is somewhat hard to wash off the rocks, though running it through a soap and water bath pretty much takes care of that. I don't know how this product would work in a barrel tumbler.
I do not put soap in the barrels along with grit. I have enough problems with foaming already and that would only make it worse! But a soapy wash is great for getting rid of the grit contaminants.
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Post by creativeminded on Feb 14, 2005 8:28:20 GMT -5
I use tripoli and 1000 grit, it might be an overkill, however, I know I get great great results. I have more stages then barrels so I usually tumble with the borax after each stage. Tami
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stefan
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Post by stefan on Feb 14, 2005 8:37:30 GMT -5
Hey join up- It is pretty painless- I use a trip then final polish- but I have not yet achieved the results that some have- I think the key is to have patience- let the stuff spin till your happy! Hey creativemind- You talk about borax a lot- Are you talking about the detergent borax- or something else?
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 14, 2005 10:41:46 GMT -5
I checked my batch yesterday. After only 5 days, 1/4 cup of 60/90 was completely gone (just mud). I don't know if the dish soap had anything to do with it. I'm running another coarse gind without soap and I'll see if there is a difference.
On a sidenote, I should get my Lortone 33b today. ;D
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Post by Cher on Feb 14, 2005 12:31:33 GMT -5
Hi Voodoo, welcome to the forum. Not sure what kind of dish soap you're using but the most recommended is to use borax. (20 Mule Team Borax). I've tumbled with and without it, haven't noticed any difference either way. It is great for washing the rocks in between stages. Hey Congrats on getting the 33B .. I have one too and I really like it.
Cher
PS ... As to your original question about the 1000 grit or Tripoli .... I highly recommend it. It does take extra patience but then the whole rock tumbling process is based on patience anyway. It IS worth the extra time though.
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Voodoo Rage
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 14, 2005 13:33:19 GMT -5
On a related note, the manual for my C/E tumbler says that after the prepolish stage, you should be able to put a little bit of polish on a soft rag and "shine" a spot on one of the rocks to test if you are ready to go to polish. I have never seen anyone mention this here, yet always hear all of the uncertainty about whether or not a particular stone will "take a polish".
What originally got me into this was that I found some nicely rounded ocean rocks (near San Simeon, CA) and thought they would look nice polished. Unfortunately after buying the tumbler and running through a cycle I was unable to get more than a matte finish. Considering all the the newbie mistake I made, I just set them aside and started on this current batch which I know should polish for sure.
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Post by krazydiamond on Feb 14, 2005 16:27:55 GMT -5
welcome to the board, Voodoo!
my opinion on pre-pre polish is that you use it to finesse a shine out of softer stones like obsidian or sodalite and isnt strictly a "must do" on anything over MOH7.
there are some stones that are too soft or too porous to ever take a shine, no matter how many tricks, stages nor polishes you try in the tumbler. wonderstone is like that, as pretty as it is, it will never shine unless you urethane it. i've had some jade stay matte as well as some dolomite. just wasn't gonna do it.
in the end, i gave up on the softer stuff and try and stick with agates and jaspers and quartz-y type stuff. less heartache and better results.
my 2 cents, KD
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MichiganRocks
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 14, 2005 17:10:16 GMT -5
I agree with KD. When you are running softer rocks, the 500/600 grit doesn't break down fast enough to provide a good prepolish and therefore a 1000 grit stage does help. Rocks such as Agate, Jasper and all other Quartz family rocks don't need anything extra. They are hard enough to break down the grit to finer and finer levels. It is important that you let the prepolish stage run long enough for the breakdown to happen. I like to run my 600 grit for ten days. The rocks already have some dry shine even before polish.
Ron
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Post by stoner on Feb 15, 2005 2:20:33 GMT -5
I like to relate the grinding of stones to sanding wood. Not the same, but similar. You can achieve a polish on a bare piece of maple by sanding the piece using progressively finer grit papers. The important thing is not to skip grit sizes. In the case of rocks, the same applies, but since the grit is used as a slurry in a closed container, it is allowed to break down to a finer grit before it is replaced with the next stage. Some people just let the rocks tumble for 6 months in the same grit they started out with, letting the grit breakdown finer and finer. In rock tumbling, the goal is to use each grit to remove all the scratches made by the previous(coarser) grit before moving on. I use 1000g silicon carbide on all my tumbles because I definetly see a difference in the results. Probably cuz I can never leave the stones in the 600g for more than 5 days before getting impatient and moving them on to polish. So, in answer to your question, it's a matter of what grit you want to call "pre-polish". I think the companies that put out the grit packs are just trying to make it easy for beginners by labeling the grits, coarse, fine, pre-polish, and polish. Now that I've been doing this for a while, I've come to understand the process and I don't consider any grit a pre-polish, just another finer grit so the polish can do it's thing a little easier. Phew! Sorry for rambling on, but I hope this will help everyone to understand the process and hopefully help to get a good shine on their next batch.
Ed
PS. Keep the process simple-NO additives in the cycles. One exception is polish. Add a little Borax in with the polish. Borax can be found at Longs Drugstores or equivalent.
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Post by Tweetiepy on Feb 15, 2005 7:26:03 GMT -5
I have a pre-polish and polish that are the same material: titanium dioxide (I think) one is just finer than the other (superfine/ultrafine). I'm assuming that this is what it,s supposed to be - would the fineness help in the polishing?
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Feb 15, 2005 11:04:52 GMT -5
I am a recent convert to 1000 fine grit...For me it allowed me to polish Tigers Eye to a mirror finish instead of a dull gloss
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MichiganRocks
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 16, 2005 8:43:46 GMT -5
One last thing that I think I should add to this thread, is that there is a distinct difference between 1000 grit silicon carbide and 1000 grit Aluminum Oxide. Silicon carbide breaks down by forming smaller pieces of sharp, angular grains that continue to cut rock. That is why letting it run longer will produce a finer and finer finish, much finer than a 1000 grit would indicate. Aluminum Oxide breaks down into a more rounded, smooth grain. Because of this, 1000 grit AO will not grind any finer than a 1000 grit finish. This is the same reason that Aluminum Oxide polish has to "break in" when you polish with it. The polish starts with a very fine grain, then the first day or so the grains are breaking down from angular grains to rounded grains which are even smaller, which then work to produce the polish that you're after.
Ron
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Post by guest on Feb 21, 2005 13:55:10 GMT -5
Running #1000 is always a good idea--for all hardnesses...
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