spacegold
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2006
Posts: 732
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Post by spacegold on Feb 14, 2007 0:39:12 GMT -5
JOHN GLENN SAID
Things that make you think a little:
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in
January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in
the month of January. That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of
Iraq.
When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the following:
a. FDR led us into World War II.
b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.
c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 18,334 per year.
d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in
1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .
an average of 5,800 per year.
f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French
consent. Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter
three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has
attacked us on multiple occasions.
g. In the years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed
the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors
in Libya, Iran, and, North Korea without firing a
shot, and captured a terrorist who
slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war
is taking.
But It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet
Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51-day operation..
We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons
in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to
find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and
the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his
Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
The Military morale is high!
The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to
realize the facts
But Wait.......................
There's more!
JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)
Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13
Some people still don't understand why military
personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange
between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard
Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty
impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good
example of one man's explanation of why men and women
in the armed services do what they do for a living.
This IS a typical, though sad, example of what
some who have never served think of the military.
Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
"How can you run for Senate when you've never held
a real job?"
Senator Glenn (D-Ohio):
"I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions.
My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different
occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my
checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take
the daily cash receipts to the bank."
"I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other
day...to a veteran's hospital and look those men
with their mangled bodies in the eye, and tell THEM
they didn't hold a job!
You go with me to the Space Program at NASA
and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans
of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...
and you look those kids in the eye and tell them
that their DADS didn't hold a job.
You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in
Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more
friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you
watch those waving flags.
You stand there, and you think about this nation,
and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job?
What about you?"
For those who don't remember ..
During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney
representing the Communist Party in the USA.
Now he's a Senator!
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Post by Toad on Feb 14, 2007 5:27:13 GMT -5
Very nice spacegold...
Not to mention the fact that several Dems and Hollywod elite called Bush a war criminal - it was Truman the dropped two atomic bombs on Japan.
Talk about inconvenient truths...
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free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
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Post by free4rms on Feb 14, 2007 10:00:35 GMT -5
Spacegold's list of justifications for going to war in Iraq is the worst case of comparing apples to oranges I have ever seen.
The list he provided includes:
>> John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in
1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
>> FDR led us into World War II.
And: >>Germany never attacked us.
I am dying to hear how these have anything in the entire world to do with lying to Congress and the American people about WMD and starting a war under false pretenses! Can you explain how anything at all on the list has anything to do with starting a war by lying?
Oh, and let's not forget one thing.... You said " The Democrats are complaining about how long the war
is taking."
What a gross misrepresentation that is! It is not the Democrats who are complaining (remember the midterm elections?) about the war. And they are not complaining about *how long it is taking*, they are complaining because we are not fighting terrorists, we are refereeing a civil war, and both sides hate us. And we were lied to about the reasons to go to war.
I think I would spend more time looking for justifications for the war by choosing things that are at least vaguely related to the war.
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Post by lonewolfrockhound on Feb 14, 2007 10:08:13 GMT -5
I am dying to hear how these have anything in the entire world to do with lying to Congress and the American people about WMD and starting a war under false pretenses! Give me a break. Your congressional committees were well aware of the same information that Bush was given. The same. Sen. Clinton as well as many, many Democrats had the same opinion of what we needed to do regarding Iraq and the WMD. Thus their vote to support the invasion. The buck does stop with the president though, and as I have observed, he's man enough to take the blame without crying and pointing fingers like so many others do. |
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free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
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Post by free4rms on Feb 14, 2007 10:42:28 GMT -5
If you read the news more closely, you will find out that the other people in congress *were not* privy to all the isame intelligence information concerning the war.
Here is a quote that was in the news right after Bush falsely claimed that Congress had the same information that he did:
The Congressional Research Service, by contrast, said: "The president, and a small number of presidentially designated Cabinet-level officials, including the vice president ... have access to a far greater overall volume of intelligence and to more sensitive intelligence information, including information regarding intelligence sources and methods."
Unlike members of Congress, the president and his top officials also have the authority to ask U.S. intelligence agencies more extensively for follow-up information, the report said. "As a result, the president and his most senior advisers arguably are better positioned to assess the quality of the ... intelligence more accurately than is Congress."
Also, just recently in the news, it was revealed that Office of Special Plans, headed by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and other Pentagon hawks had been using distorted intelligence findings to win support from the public and Congress to start a war in Iraq even though the White House knew much of the information was dubious, according to CIA agents.
So, as it was pointed out by opposition leaders when Bush initially said congress had the same intelligence information as congress, this is absolutely false. It was all over the evening news when Bush first made the "equal information" claim.
Sure Bush is man enough to take the blame.... I am still waiting to see it though.
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on Feb 14, 2007 10:51:58 GMT -5
I think that it's wise to ask: Who has profited from the war in Iraq? Then start pointing fingers.... Does big business determine foreign policy now? The line dividing Dem and Rep is fuzzy IMO... Is the Bush administration fiscally conservative? ..is government less intrusive after 6 years of GOP leadership? ...do we have the same liberties we had 20 years ago? I think the answer to those questions is no. ...and some still think that the current Whitehouse represents GOP values... I'm not seeing it. So all this talk about Dems and Reps is silly... The Bush administration betrayed not only the American people but the GOP as well.... I'm not the only one who thinks so... This article is from a true blue conservative who worked on both the Reagan and Bush Sr. staffs... www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5227215..and a book.. www.amazonves.com/Impostor-George-Bankrupted-America-Betrayed/dp/0385518277...it's pretty frustrating for me to watch this country go down the toilet while we all bicker among ourselves. It's a sad state of affairs. BTW - for the record.. I've voted both ways and I voted for Ross Perot when he ran for President and campaigned against NAFTA. Yes.... I'm crazy but not delusional.  |
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Post by lonewolfrockhound on Feb 14, 2007 11:02:58 GMT -5
I have no doubt that possible mistakes were made in judgement. Do I believe for a second that Bush intentionally lied to the American people like the chorus chant of so many? Not on your life.
Do I think that the best place for us is right smack in the middle of the fundamentalist Islamic "empire". Right. I do.
Further, I feel that when the crapola is all said and done, don't know how long it will take, but history, IMHO will paint Bush as a visionary of freedom and the one who began the process of eliminating the people in the world that would kill us and a whole lot of other people to establish Islamic Fundamentalism world-wide.
But you folks go ahead and bash the President. Hang your head in shame as an American as you say you do. I prefer to hold the course, to establish freedom in parts of the world that harbor terrorists that kill so many innocents. The enemies of freedom. OUR enemy.
We are at war and half this country wants to give the terrorist nations that send people to kill us preference.
I'll never understand that thinking.
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Post by hermatite on Feb 14, 2007 11:11:47 GMT -5
To me this whole topic just seems like a way to get more members fighting with each other. I'm not rising to the bait.
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on Feb 14, 2007 11:18:43 GMT -5
I have to agree with you Hermy. ...but it's sort of a microcosm of current division in the US today... I think it will get much worse unfortunately.  |
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Post by lbowman1 on Feb 14, 2007 11:49:23 GMT -5
Spacegold's last few posts were deleted by the mod because he was trying to start another argument by attacking members of this forum. Looks like he's found another way to try and destroy this group.
The thread isn't about the current president or any past one. Basically Spacegold has gone to war against us. If he can't rule this forum then he will destroy it and ruin all these friendships that people have built here. Think on that a while before you rip each other a new one.
Lori
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WyckedWyre
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2007
Posts: 1,391
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Post by WyckedWyre on Feb 14, 2007 11:52:23 GMT -5
GEORGE BUSH SAID "See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." —Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003  |
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garock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,168
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Post by garock on Feb 15, 2007 16:13:08 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this. Frank (GaRock)
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chassroc
Cave Dweller 
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Feb 17, 2007 14:39:05 GMT -5
Hey Spacegold,
Sounds like you drank a little too much of that KoolAid
csroc
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desertdweller
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since August 2006
Posts: 1,803
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Post by desertdweller on Feb 17, 2007 15:18:59 GMT -5
But you folks go ahead and bash the President. Hang your head in shame as an American as you say you do. I prefer to hold the course, to establish freedom in parts of the world that harbor terrorists that kill so many innocents. The enemies of freedom. OUR enemy.
TO establish freedom? I guess you don't know what its like over there do you? Killing innocents? We have killed more innocent people over there than any Terrorists ever thought of.
Bush lies every time he opens his mouth, to watch him fumble through a press conference is like watching a fish on the shore, gasping for air. Not only is he out of his element, he is out of his league.
The Bush Administration refuses to release twenty-seven pages of a Congressional report that reportedly detail the Saudi Arabian government's connections to the 9/11 hijackers.
President Bush said, "You can't distinguish between Al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror," before he admitted Saddam had no role in 9/11.
President Bush said we had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, before he admitted we hadn't found them.
One day after President Bush bragged about his efforts to help seniors afford healthcare, the Administration announced the largest dollar increase of Medicare premiums in history.
In a case before the Supreme Court, the Bush Administrations sided with HMOs--arguing that patients shouldn't be allowed to sue HMOs when they are improperly denied treatment. With the Administration's help, the HMOs won.
The Bush Administration did nothing to prevent the minimum wage from falling to an inflation-adjusted fifty-year low.
In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to protect the Social Security surplus. As President, he spent all of it.
In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to pay down the national debt to a historically low level. As of September 30, the national debt stood at $7,379,052,696,330.32, a record high.
The Bush Administration implemented regulations that made millions of workers ineligible for overtime pay.
The Bush Administration turned a $236 billion surplus into a $422 billion deficit.
The Bush Administration installed as top officials more than 100 former lobbyists, attorneys or spokespeople for the industries they oversee.
The Bush Administration paid Iraqi-exile and neocon darling Ahmad Chalabi $400,000 a month for intelligence, including fabricated claims about Iraqi WMD. It continued to pay him for months after discovering that he was providing inaccurate information.
The Bush Administration awarded a multibillion-dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton--a company that still pays Vice President Cheney hundreds of thousands of dollars in deferred compensation each year (Cheney also has Halliburton stock options). The company then repeatedly overcharged the military for services, accepted kickbacks from subcontractors and served troops dirty food.
During the Bush Administration, North Korea quadrupled its suspected nuclear arsenal from two to eight weapons.
More than three years after 9/11, just 5 percent of all cargo--including cargo transported on passenger planes--is screened.
The Bush Administration granted the 9/11 Commission $3 million to investigate the September 11 attacks and $50 million to the commission that investigated the Columbia space shuttle crash.
The Bush Administration did not devote the resources necessary to prevent a resurgence in the production of poppies, the raw material used to create heroin, in Afghanistan--creating a potent new source of financing for terrorists.
The Bush Administration secured less nuclear material from sites around the world vulnerable to terrorists in the two years after 9/11 than were secured in the two years before 9/11.
The Bush Administration failed to commit enough troops to capture Osama bin Laden when US forces had him cornered in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan in November 2001. Instead, they relied on local warlords.
After receiving a memo from the CIA in August 2001 titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack America," President Bush continued his monthlong vacation.
The amount of american lives that have been lost due to Bush's war has surpassed the amount of lives lost on 9/11, with no end in sight.
The Bush Administration ignored estimates from Gen. Eric Shinseki that several hundred thousand troops would be required to secure Iraq.
The Bush Administration sent troops into battle without adequate body armor or armored Humvees and cut the national guards wages in half. He also took away their health benefits.
I could go on and on.
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on Feb 17, 2007 15:25:15 GMT -5
Bless you Jamie ...don't forget "Good job! Brownie!" |
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