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Post by Tweetiepy on Feb 19, 2005 13:35:50 GMT -5
Assuming that I can find either a silicone carbide or diamond file, could I use this to shape my rocks? This way there would be less tumbling to get the shape that I want - I'm at the mercy of mother nature for the shape of the stones. First of all, do these types of file exist and second, could I use them to file them down? A bit of course, I have no intention of using it like a saw.
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Post by rockyraccoon on Feb 19, 2005 15:47:08 GMT -5
tweetie - i had to do some searching as i knew i'd seen pics of the folks carving using some diamond burs or something but scroll down this page and there are some tools they use "rasps and riflers" that might be what you are talking about. www.thesculpturestudio.com/stone2.htmif it is then you could put "stone carving tools" in a search and find them. kim
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 19, 2005 17:44:27 GMT -5
A hardened steel file won't touch a quartz+ hardness stone. I ordered some diamond dremel burs off of E-bay. I'm curious how those do. Here is what I got (they were pretty inexpensive): cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4357511618I have a water cooled model grinder at my dental office and it doesn't touch some jasper I tested on it. If I want, I can swap out the existing disc for a diamond impregnated one but that costs over $300...
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Post by Cher on Feb 19, 2005 18:49:41 GMT -5
Tweety, you need a dremel (or dremel like tool). The amount of filing you'd have to do by hand with a file like that .... you'd go crazy. It's amazing what you can do with a dremel and some diamond burs.
Cher
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deepsouth
fully equipped rock polisher
He who rocks last rocks best
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,256
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Post by deepsouth on Feb 19, 2005 22:38:20 GMT -5
I believe that stonecarving is usualy done with softer stone like soapstone or marbel. It would be agonizingly slow trying to use a file on hard material like agate or even quartz. You would need several truckloads of patience for starters. then get your energy level up and apply heaps of elbow grease.
Filing iron or wood is not a problem . hard stone is ......tough.
Dremel would be the way to go
Jack
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 20, 2005 8:40:29 GMT -5
Hey Tweetie, I use an assortment of diamond hand files. When you need to do any intricate detail work, they are far easier than using power tools, at least for me. I also prefer doing work by hand if possible, I can get more of myself into the work. Of course, I often add some of my blood as well. For sure, the hand files aren't fast. The following link is where I get mine from. I bought the first set and an assortment of all the grits sizes from the third box. Water isn't necessary since you can generate enough heat hand filing to hurt them. Ron www.lopacki.com/files/
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Post by Tweetiepy on Feb 20, 2005 13:22:23 GMT -5
Depending on the cost I may try both. My dad has a dremel, and I may only need to buy the diamond burs. Basically what I want is to get a better, smoother shape to start off with, so that when I tumble them, I'll end up with something closer to what I want instead of leaving it up to the tumbler's mercy. I want less lumps... I would like to try to do a simili-cab but what i have going is pretty lumpy. I'm hoping that the dremel will help me get a nicer shape to start off with. BTW I tried splitting some of my larger stones..... I couldn't. I had the hammer, the box set up, the steel plate and the splitting tool. I couldn't get a one to split, maybe I needed a sharper edge on my tool. But I may have to tumble my larger pieces by twos in my other batches.... They're wonderful pieces anyways, just hoping that I didn't make unseen fractures within the stone.
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llanago
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,714
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Post by llanago on Feb 20, 2005 13:36:25 GMT -5
Tweetie, the secret to splitting rocks is having a good chisel. You place the chisel on a frature in the rock, then just whack the h*ll out of it. May take a couple, three good whacks, but it will usually split fairly clean. Of course, if your rock doesn't have any fractures, that's a whole 'nother story! You can usually bust 'em but you have to really keep at it and you will get a lot of shards. A dremel is the way to go for shaping rocks if you don't have a saw and sometimes even if you do have a saw! Can't shape a heart with a saw, you can get it almost there, but you still need a dremel to finish it. I haven't ever used hand held files, so no help from me on that! Be really careful whacking those rocks! Those shards fly everywhere and can be dangerous. One flew into my thigh one day! Didn't really hurt that bad, but could have been my eye and that would have been serious! llana
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Feb 20, 2005 14:33:38 GMT -5
The Dremel or Black and Decker rotary tools are even tough to use to shape pieces for tumbling unless one has lots of time and patinece. Alas, it is probably the best alternative. I have used them to remove blemishes light dark spots on orange or red carnellian and to try and enlarge cracks and round off high spots. They sell diamond impregnated or coated bits for this but should be used with water
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Post by Tweetiepy on Feb 20, 2005 18:35:38 GMT -5
Can I use a dremel under water? If I'm dremelling these rocks, should I do it in a bucket or pan of water? How do you hold on to those slippery suckers then?
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 20, 2005 19:04:32 GMT -5
I hit the local swap meet today and found some diamond Dremel burs for $5 for a set of 25. I was able to remove most of the imperfections from my current batch but I definately chewed up a few burs in the process (I probably should have used water, but considering they were only about 20 cents each...). I purchased some diamond hand files too but those were pretty worthless. I also found a nice handheld sledgehammer for $5 and a chisel with a protective rubber guard for $4. I played with some leftover mixed rocks that I had and it seemed pretty effective. BTW, I tried a dental handpiece at my office and it cut through Jasper like butter. Here's a picture of my rock splitting setup:
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Post by docone31 on Feb 20, 2005 20:03:37 GMT -5
About the only realistic way to shape stones, is with a water cooled grinding wheel. For really minor norges, a diamond file will kinda work, but it will take forever. With my Foredom and handpiece, I can roughly shape the softer stones, Lapis, Turquoise, Malachite but anything over about MOHS 5 will take years. I have found the easy way is the right way. It doesn't take a lapidary setup. You can make the machines after you get a bench grinder. It will cost less to do it the right way.
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 20, 2005 20:19:10 GMT -5
Now, I do have a belt driven bench grinder in my garage. Here's a picture: Do you think these that have potential for anything? Also, I am very tempted to grab an inexpensive tile saw from Home Depot just for trimming down tumbing rocks... I know you guys are big on lapidary saws but I'm not ready for that kind of investment yet...
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Post by docone31 on Feb 20, 2005 20:32:11 GMT -5
That motor arbor setup has real potential. All you need is a water drip, diamond wheel, and rubber drum and sandpaper rolls. You can shape any cab, shape, stone you can imagine. That setup is mostly there. A tile saw will work, but the diamond wheel is very coarse and recquires way more work to smooth than a finer diamond. I would still be using a tile saw if I could get blades for it. I started with an Home Depot tile saw, and got some real good results. had to really grind down the cut marks, and made a real mess. I still have some of the cabs that saw cut. That setup is mostly there.
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Post by sandsman1 on Feb 20, 2005 20:40:31 GMT -5
voodoo you can make that a water grinder real easy because your arbor and motor are seperate---just grab a 2inch deep bakeing pan unbolt the arbor line up the holes and get a 1/2 or 3/4 block of wood the same size as the arbor base put down the tray to catch the water then the block of wood then the arbor bolt them all back together and use alittle caulk at the tray holes so they dont leak and your done --then make a water drip out of a 5gal bucket and run two lines to the shields and drill a hole in each shield and slip a tube in for the water drip ---you might wanna make something for the sides to keep the spray in but i bet that works fine
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 20, 2005 20:50:57 GMT -5
Ooooo, sounds like a plan.
Now, what type and where would I get the diamond wheel?
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Post by sandsman1 on Feb 20, 2005 20:54:45 GMT -5
this is a store bought one not much dif from what you have there if you add a tray and water drip
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Post by sandsman1 on Feb 20, 2005 21:01:40 GMT -5
i got the same type wheel as the first one but mines an 8inch yours looks like a 6inch grinder---you can look around and see if you can find one cheaper but there runnin around the same price ---look on ebay and you might run into a deal www.cyberrockhound.com/grinding_wheels.htm
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Voodoo Rage
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2005
Posts: 127
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Post by Voodoo Rage on Feb 20, 2005 21:03:00 GMT -5
Well, that sounds well within my technical abilities. Now is your drip just gravity fed or do you use like an aquarium pump (what volume of water do you need?).
Yes, the grinding wheel is 6 inch. The arbor is definately not 1" but I think those wheels include a bushing to allow my to install on a smaller arbor. They are pricey little buggers....
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Post by sandsman1 on Feb 20, 2005 21:10:13 GMT -5
its just gravity feed and you can use air line for a fish tank and when you buy caulk or a good tube of glue they give you a tip with steps in it to change the size of the bead your pushing out well i used one of those for the bucket just drill a hole in the side of the bucket as low as you can make it alittle smaller then the nose piece for the caulk push it through from the inside and befor its touchin give it a good bead of caulk to water seal it and let it sit over nite and your done
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