Arrrggghhh!!!! my dops keep letting go!

Hey Rally. Are you heating up the stones too? I heat the stones to a point where my fingers get a little toasty while I'm putting them on the dop stick. I use the green wax too.

Hmm, something must be wrong. I just got to the point of loosing very few rocks off sticks (out of 20, only one fell off, and on the new batch, all are staying on so far.)
Here's my thoughts (BTW, I am obessed with dopping, so I hope this doesn't sound too weird)
1. Black wax is stronger and melts at a higher temp. I used to use green and went to black. Green should work fine though. Everyone uses it. Black is a little stonger and more brittle (brittle=not an issue)
2. I heat up the wax, stick and rock before afixing everything.
3. Make sure your slabs/preforms are clean. I wash them off with soap and water then thoroughly dry them out. I also handle the edges to avoid getting oil from your hands onto the rocks.
4. After they are dopped, I put them back on the warmer, stick pointing up, until the wax starts to slightly melt again. I watch for the wax to get kinda shiney but not too liquidy as to not un-dop accidenly.
5. Let them cool slowly. Find a part of the dop pot that's a bit cooler and let them sit there for a little while before removing them completely. The idea is to let them cool slowly so the wax bondes better.
6. If you leave them overnight, keep them in a place where the temperature will not vary a lot. Mine sit in the garage. If you keep them in a holder (anything with lots of 1/4 inch holes) I think they do better because the stone is not on a cold or warm surface.
7. Also, it may be your choice of rocks. I think some rocks take better to the dop that others. For example, I have the toughest time getting blue lace agate to stick. Others, like most agates, love the wax.
Even with all that I loose some, especially little ones with less wax-to-stone exposure. Hope that helps. If you do all that and still have problems, I can't help ya.
Steve

Ohmagosh, you posted that photo of your setup just as I was blabbing on and on. Looks like you already got most of what I said. I think the idea of a tray in the oven is avery good one, but the stove may work too. Before I had a dop setup I used a cookie sheet on the stove (electric) on low. Oh, and by the way, I am no seasoned veteran. I have only seriously been doing cabs for 4 months. I just did a lot of reading and am obsessed with dopping. Rocks flying off the stick make me jumpy. The only think I can say is that judging from your photo, maybe skinnier dowells may work better. It would increase the amount of wax you have holding the rock on. The more the better. That's speculation though. I use some sticks that size too.

Oh, and BTW, that's a fancy looking dop pot there. Very nice.
Steve

I personal still say glue is the best route, That is if time is an issue. Because you only need to wipe the stone with a bit of acetone to remove oils and dirt. Mix glue, set, and within 15 minutes you can be cabbing. AS for me, it about time and production. AS i will do 30-50 cabs in one sitting. So if i have to dop any, i dont want to spend anymore time than i have to playing with hot wax that can fail easy if you not careful. or as Rocklicker notes, a good solid process for letting the wax bond properly and cool down correctly. AS there are so many things that can and do cause the wax to fail. It does work, and playing with wax is fun sometimes. I personally believe the whole wax thing is just to accessorize your grinding. IT a traditional thing until glue came around that was strong enough. AS most lapidaries i have worked with over the years who have been doing it for half their life, all use glue. For the same time constraint reasons and less mess.

Hey Cher, You can get a better bond with wax the more surface area you use. But that would fail sometime too for me.

Currently i use Devcon, it is a two part epoxy, and sets within 5minutes after mixed.

My process goes like this; choose which side for all performs, wipe the back with a little acetone on paper towel, get out all needed dops, make sure the doping side is flat on the sticks, if not, buzz them real quick on the grinder, mix glue, grab stick, dip in glue, press stick to back of preform, invert and put in a dop holder i made.

That’s it, come back in 15 minutes and my grinder be singing. And once i have all the performs chosen, the process takes maybe 10minutes to do for a dozen cabs.

For wax its really simple, put it in the freezer for a few minute, then pull it out- if they don't fall off right away, try dipping it in warm water- the different rates of thermal expansion cause the rock to just pop off.

I expect epoxy might work like that too, but I haven't tried it yet.

Although the tip to do a good pre-heat on the stones and then cool them slowly seemed to have solved the bulk of my problems, as most of the stuff I did Sunday night held through all of last night, and I hope to finish a bunch of them this evening.

OK Stefan's theroy on the almighty DOP! (or how I dop) Ok first things first- I have dopped over 50 stones now- I have only had one let go on a wheel, 4 have fallen off after some time (usually after the 600 belt) and 3 I pulled off when retesting. I start by melting the wax- but I also heat the dops (I use doweling and golf tees) i place 3 or 4 stones on the warmer AFTER the wax has come to temp- It does not take too long to heat the stones- So then I scoop up wax on the dop, roll it a bit (to get a cone shaped ball of wax) and mash it onto the stone (still on the heat) the wax should rement when it touches the stone, I then lift the dop (with the stone attached) and place it on a chunk of 2x4 to cool a bit (I usually work 3 or 4 stones at a time) after it cools to the point wher the wax is still very soft (but does not stick to skin) I smooth the wax around the dop and the stone- then set it aside to cool. That is it- very simple- After the stone has cooled off (usually 10 to 15 min- I have a strange way of telling if it is cool enough- I use my outer lip to see if it still is warm) I pull the stone straight away from the dop (not too hard- but give it a good tug) if the stone wiggles or comes off then you probably did not have the stone warm enough- Also when grinding- After you finish a stone-I set them on a rag (or paper towel) sideways so the water runs off and does not pool around the wax- I am 100% convinced that the stone releases from a dop because moisture get between the stone and the wax- (this is why the freezer trick works so well- by rapidly cooling the stone You introduce moisture between the stone and wax) When grinding- the stone heats slightly- if you leave it with a pool of water around the bond the chances of drawing moisture under the wax is greatly increased. So that is it- my version of how to dop-