|
|
Post by akansan on Jan 2, 2008 22:42:59 GMT -5
Technically, the zoo was not required to have the wall at the 14' height (or was it 16?). In fact, the last review of the zoo found no deficiencies in the Tiger enclosures. The rule about wall height has the recommended height, but the actual rule is enough distance and height to keep the tiger from reaching the humans under routine zoo traffic.
Were these boys the first boys to (allegedly) torment this tiger? Probably not. Unfortunately, they were the ones that were (allegedly) tormenting the animal on the day the animal decided she had had enough.
I'm sorry they had to put the animal down. I hate that they had to kill that tiger. However, I also understand why they did it - same reason they kill other man-eating animals. They fear the animal equating humans with food source.
Who do I blame? I blame the kids if they were tormenting the animal. I sympathized with their family until the point they seek to profit from the tragedy. I admit - I feel the most sorry for the zoo that hosted this freak attack. They become the bad guys - the "deficient" zoo that hasn't had a major problem since it first opened in 1929. It's been accredited with the Zoo Association for over 30 years!
Sorry - if you pick on a wild animal, you need a wake up call. It's like the kids who torment a dog that's on a chain. One day, that dog's not going to be on the chain when the kids come along to torment it. Guess what happens?
|
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Jan 2, 2008 23:31:10 GMT -5
|
|
earthdog
Cave Dweller 
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
|
Post by earthdog on Jan 3, 2008 0:22:34 GMT -5
Parfive, it sounds by that link that something was bound to happen that was gonna be bad.
It's sad that a zoo has to be run and do stuff like that link says happened.
I don't understand that statement at all.
As a hunter and have gone through a couple hunter safety classes and have read about game management for years, I have learned it is the other way around. If it were not for hunters there would be so many more deer that I don't know if anyone could afford car insurance for all the car/deer accidents and farmers wouldn't be able to keep fields of produce. Hunters keep deer population in check otherwise we would be overrun with deer, it's called "game management"
Alright, there was no shoe found in the enclosure, only a shoe print!
I'm sure that, that keeper was harassing the same tiger also.
I'm sure the parents of the dead kid will sue for wrongful death but the other two boys are over 18 and I really don't think that their parents can sue for chit, thats why the two boys hired Mark Geragos, not their parents.
Just another expert in the case of the mauling tiger
Again, I'm glad to see alot of people here have alread convicted those boys before all evidence is in and the investigation is completed.
Don't get me wrong I'm not standing up for those two boys. If they harassed the tiger then they should get alot more than just
a cruelty to animals charge and they should not be able to sue the zoo. I just hate the way alot of people judge and convict others without knowing the facts, just like the media does.
|
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Jan 3, 2008 0:39:16 GMT -5
Edog: "I'm glad to see alot of people here have alread convicted . . . before all evidence is in and the investigation is completed."
Kinda like what happens on RTH sometimes.
Rich
|
|
earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
|
Post by earthdog on Jan 3, 2008 8:31:50 GMT -5
Boy do I like a good debate, unlike Takila and I where it starts getting loud with yelling.
Parfive, when has that happened here? Most all the time we are right about someone in here.
I hope you aren't referring to me though. I wasn't wrong about jody, tmorris, gemmaster or bambam.. And I'll bet some Harley chrome I'm not wrong about someone else that seems to be jacking Snowdog.
|
|
|
|
Post by texaswoodie on Jan 3, 2008 8:35:52 GMT -5
Sorry Kate, but I disagree.
There are more deer in the U. S. now than there were in Davy Crockett's time. If hunters didn't take care of the deer population, nature would by the way of disease and starvation, and Nature does a lot more thorough job than we do. How do you think Game Management is afforded? It's certainly not through the kindness of our government. It's through the fees hunters pay to hunt.
If you really believe that two 18 year old boys hired Mark Geragos, I have a bridge I want to sell you.
Curt
|
|
earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
|
Post by earthdog on Jan 3, 2008 9:01:50 GMT -5
Why are you calling me Kate? You quoted me and my name is Jim.
The parents might have advised the kids to get an attorney but
I'll bet you my Harley that Geragos was hired "pro bono" because if they win, they will win big!
All of the studies I have seen do talk about disease and starvation but the population will outweigh the disease and starvation.
Which bridge do you have to sell? If I buy it can I turn it into a toll bridge?
|
|
|
|
Post by texaswoodie on Jan 3, 2008 9:05:21 GMT -5
Whoops sorry e-dog, my bad.  Curt |
|
|
|
Post by invisibleuser on Jan 3, 2008 9:26:28 GMT -5
This is a wake-up call for all zoos, I am sure! You're absolutely right!!! ;D ;D All zoos need to ban idiots from entering. If not for the fact the tiger were provoked- none of this would have happened in the first place. I'm sick and tired of people acting like idiots, then being rewarded when things go bad. This is part of the "entitlement" mentality that this country has been in. If it were solely up to me, I would throw whatever lawsuits out the door and jail the two idiots that were provoking the tiger in the first place. Steve ;D ;D ;D |
|
free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
|
Post by free4rms on Jan 3, 2008 10:14:23 GMT -5
Here is a partial quote from an ABC News report about the supposed sling shots: "Police today flatly denied a report that the three victims of the Christmas Day tiger mauling at the San Francisco Zoo were carrying slingshots on the day of the attack, which claimed the life of a 17-year-old zoo visitor. The denial follows a report that appeared in the New York Post and cited an unnamed police source who made the slingshot claim about Carlos Sousa Jr. and brothers Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal." Here is the link to the article: The denial follows a report that appeared in the New York Post and cited an unnamed police source who made the slingshot claim about Carlos Sousa Jr. and brothers Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal. Sousa was killed in the attack. Here is a link to the article: www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4072527&page=1 |
|
earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
|
Post by earthdog on Jan 3, 2008 11:11:45 GMT -5
I wonder why the media isn't talking about all the bad stuff that the zoo has been through before this mauling.
|
|
|
|
Post by akansan on Jan 3, 2008 12:09:50 GMT -5
Interesting link, Parfive. I did a quick search last night, but didn't turn that link up before posting.
Sounds like a director is in bad need of replacement, there!
|
|
|
|
Post by takilasunrise on Jan 3, 2008 12:48:23 GMT -5
Lots and lots of rumors, as usual! Happens with every high-profile story that crosses the news wires! Even though we are still waiting on the evidence, I'm sure "something" provoked and/or engaged the tiger to jump out of it's enclosure. Period. As has been said, the tiger was just being a tiger. It's not it's fault that it can't live in it's natural environment. Though I know nothing about tiger behavior in captivity, I'm sure it didn't have the need to go look for food. They probably get fed better than a lot of people's pets in this country! I'm sure they try to give it enough stimulation by giving it "toys" to play with, etc. It has shelter, it gets plenty of water and food, health care, etc. So unless it had some kind of disease they weren't aware of, there was a reason why it jumped out of it's enclosure. It was able to escape what humans thought was "escape-proof". Lesson learned the hard way. As for the boys, they were either the reason the tiger decided to attack, or, they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Both sides have lost! If the boy's misbehavior is the reason, they've paid the ultimate price for it. If the tiger did it just because, well, it's because it's a tiger! Not too hard to figure out. There's plenty of shows on TV about people raising wild animals and they live together in harmony just fine. But I can tell you, those people also realize they are still wild animals and respect them and give them their space. This is a very frustrating topic because, I, too, love animals more than most humans. If it had been my child that was attacked, I would be devastated and would want the zoo to pay, too. But I wouldn't blame the tiger. I blame all the humans involved.
I think Earthdog's issue is that everyone is jumping to conclusions, assuming it's the boys fault before substantial evidence has been discovered and reported. I do understand where he's coming from. My issue is that our system never takes into consideration that some of the "victim's" roles/actions are not allowed as evidence when investigating a crime. It's always the perpetrator's fault, never the victim's fault. Yes, most of the time the victim has nothing to do with it, such as in rape or a shooting in an armed robbery, etc. But when someone or something is pushed too far and they finally breakdown and react, it's never the victim's fault. That's my issue with this whole thing!
|
|
181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by 181lizard on Jan 3, 2008 13:17:21 GMT -5
E...I'm thinkin that frilly jacket may have had somethin to do with your being mistaken for Kate! (heh-heh)
Wise cracks aside, I understand why you're irritated about the media and people judging without proper knowledge. I get sick to death of it too.
Instead of us spouting where the fault lies, someone please come up with a different spin. If you were in the shoes of the zoo...(and their legal team) what would you suggest be done about this matter? What would be right? Are you gonna stand before the media and say you were at fault? NOPE! May as well close down all zoos in the USA because they'd be fair game from then on.
Are you gonna say you have no responsibility in the matter?
NOPE! You'd be labeled as a horrible organization & you may as well close down right then & there.
No...you're gonna attempt to cut a deal before it goes to trial in the hopes of making it all go away. You'll implement new safety standards and get them put in place and probably make a plaque marker in the area of the young mans death to show you have a heart. You'll settle with the families for an undisclosed $$ amount and you'll hope the dust settles quickly and everyone will get back to their lives.
This is not how it really should be...but it IS how we handle real life cases.
|
|
chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by chassroc on Jan 3, 2008 14:02:34 GMT -5
Quote:"San Francisco Police Department hasn't even completed its investigation."
Statements like that is how the media gets away with convicting someone before all evidence is in and someone even goes to a trial.
What! The media is not convicting anyone, just stating fact. Let's not blame the media for reporting a story that fascinates everyone.
csroc
|
|
chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by chassroc on Jan 3, 2008 14:23:11 GMT -5
I need to rant a little...Let me take another direction on this...seems we don't have enough evidence, just suspicion about the motivations of these three unfortunates.
As a child I enjoyed going to the Bronx Zoo in NYC; a really nifty facility with an enormous number and variety of specimens. As I started to think for myself I became more and more repulsed by the very idea of locking anything up in a cage. Maybe it was those twilight zone episodes where humans become the critters on display for alien races or those books by Kurt Vonnegut. Maybe it was learning how similar we are to animals. In any event, I'd hate to spend my life in a cage and I cannot imagine how any creature with even moderate intelligence can help but go stark raving mad due to enslavement.
When I see Polar Bears in a pool or Dolphins in an enclosure doing tricks for trainers or elephants dressed in tutus or eagles in a 20 foot cage it makes me very very sad
Still... what does one do about other species? we are at the top of the food chain and do not want competition from others. We want our children to have good lives and to be safe from other predators so we don't want these creatures sneaking up on us when we are at rest or play. what do we do? maybe zoos are a good idea? maybe they get better every year and the enclosures become more natural. Maybe that is the best we can do?
csroc
|
|
earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
|
Post by earthdog on Jan 3, 2008 15:26:59 GMT -5
What!? Come on Chass, then why do so many court cases get a
change of venue? Because mainly of the media, be it local or nation wide. because the media only reports the bad on someone in a case like this or even an OJ type of trial. They, (the media) has them convicted by the way of their reporting.
Just like in this case you only heard abut the same tiger biting it's keeper a year ago, not all the other stuff like the elephant that messed up a technician, or "78-year-old institution saddled with a history of mismanagement and scores of injuries to animals, employees and visitors alike"
The news reported the kids had slingshots and alot of people right away say the kids did it and everyone knows they used the slingshots to harrass the tiger. Oh damn, I guess now there really wasn't any slingshots found on the boys..
Maybe there wasn't even an empty bottle of booze in their car.
Maybe, just maybe that tiger, since it apparently chewed someone else up last year was just pissed, like midnightrocks said "that cat was probably minding her own miserable life " and got fed up with it.
|
|
earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
|
Post by earthdog on Jan 3, 2008 15:28:50 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Takila is right,
I see that everyday with the animals we have versus me...
|
|
|
|
Post by MrP on Jan 3, 2008 15:57:02 GMT -5
EDog You are going to find out just how "far" Takila can jump ;D....MrP
|
|
|
|
Post by takilasunrise on Jan 3, 2008 15:58:29 GMT -5
It's not MY fault the one dog doesn't like you.....................
|
|
