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Post by takilasunrise on Jan 2, 2008 12:58:37 GMT -5
Earthdog and I got into a "heated discussion" this morning about the tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo. The newest report is that slingshots were found on these boys. There is also a report that they may have been drinking/drunk. Believe me, I agree with Earthdog that the tiger's enclosure was obviously not sufficient enough to keep the animals contained. There are recommendations/regulations for the enclosures for size, distance, etc. based on scientific data (ie., how far a tiger can jump). But, I wonder, have they conducted studies on how far a tiger can jump when he's "really pissed off"? Was this tiger aggravated already from issues of being imprisoned, and then have a bunch of young, dumb human males provoke her by shooting rocks at her? Or dangling their legs over the ledge to prove to each other how macho they are? As most domestic cat owners know, as soon as you dangle anything in front of your kitty cat, he will attack it! We think it is cute, but forget that this is a hunting instinct in ALL cats!
No, these boys should not have been attacked, with one losing his life. But their alleged behavior, if in fact they were provoking this animal, needs to come into play. I don't feel it is a reason to take the blame off of the zoo, but I do feel that if they in fact were harassing these animals, then it is partly their fault. If they had just stood there observing the tiger, like most "normal" zoo-going folks, this wouldn't be an issue. But if you poke an animal long enough, they are eventually going to fight back.
This is a wake-up call for all zoos, I am sure!
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Post by midnightrocksi3 on Jan 2, 2008 13:48:49 GMT -5
Oooo I love a good debate. lol
so here's my 2008 3 cents..
I think that big kitty should of eaten them too.... But as
usual I believe as Karma would have it...... that if you play with fire you're gonna get burned.... and in this case.. if you piss off a full grown wild animal.. you're bound to be torn to shreds..
The tiger does what animals like her do(she's a born killer).. it's not the zoo's fault.. they label it dangerous and tell you . keep all limbs to yourself and don't taunt or feed them....the boyz clearly lacked any respect for the zoo.. and that poor animal locked up on display.. I guess since the two lived.. maybe they'll learn something from it.. the other..it's sad, cuz they already found their shoe as evidence inside that cage...... so I'm guessing she got a taste of that one already..so meow mix? I dunno Karma? I'm almost positive..
Roxy
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Post by sandsman1 on Jan 2, 2008 13:50:35 GMT -5
pretty wierd the tiger picked them and that day to make a break for it and have a snack im bettin they pissed him off with the sling shots and he wanted alittle payback -- but im sure they will sue and get millions for torturing the tiger =--its not his fault he was dealing with mental midgets
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Post by midnightrocksi3 on Jan 2, 2008 13:55:30 GMT -5
I don't think they should be allowed to sue.. after all they went there with full intentions of mischief.. and ignoring the signs and warnings.. is their own fault.. see. they ought to be glad they are alive.... if they sue and win .. I'm sure you're going to see an influx of boners rushing to the zoo to torment the animals in hopes they get mauled or killed. lol
Roxy
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Post by krazydiamond on Jan 2, 2008 14:09:56 GMT -5
they shouldn't have had to kill the tiger.....i thought they had traquilzer darts or stuff like that? tigers are rare, humans are not. the kids all deserve to be Cat Chow for taunting, teasing and torturing a poor animal that only has her own instincts to rely on.
yes, there are rules and building codes for zoos and they should be built to these standards. but the studies and research done to create these standards don't always cover the 1000-to-1 situations such as this one. these boys went in there with malice aforethought with mischief in mind, where were the security guards? close circuit cameras?
just another case of the one ruining things for the many.
KD
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earthdog
Cave Dweller 
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Jan 2, 2008 14:15:39 GMT -5
No it's not the zoo's fault the tiger got pissed, even if someone was harassing it, but it is the zoo's fault the tiger was able to get out!
How in the hell do you know this? It's not proven they were there with the intent to harass the animal.
Statements like that is how the media gets away with convicting someone before all evidence is in and someone even goes to a trial.
BS! It's not their fault they got mauled and one got killed. That is the fault of the zoo.
If it were your cousin or nephew that it happened to I'll bet you'd be singin another tune.
Slap the boys with a cruelty to animals charge then let Mark Geragos sue the chit out of the zoo and whomever.
Bottom line is the tiger never should have been able to get out.
Answer this, who's fault is it the tiger was able to get out. If those boys knew the tiger could get out they would have never done anything to it, if thats what they did.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Jan 2, 2008 14:20:08 GMT -5
Yep, try and convict them without all the facts. Again, Keep listening to the news who is great for convicting people before they even step foot in a court or before the police hand down a charge. These kind of statements are sad.  I'm glad you people will never be on my jury if I ever have one. |
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Post by takilasunrise on Jan 2, 2008 14:21:24 GMT -5
Thank you..............................it's nice to know I'm not the only one that thinks the same! Yes, they're going to sue, and yes, they will probably win some big money (don't forget about their "famous" attorney). But I get so ticked off when humans always think they can do whatever they want when it comes to animals. We move into their territory (like in the Rocky Mountains) and then complain about and kill mountain lions for attacking their dogs that they have tied up on leashes outside; or, they complain when the elk and deer eat up their flower or vegetable gardens.........duh! You're the ones that decided to move in and take over their living space! Hey, I love zoos because it gives me a chance to enjoy wildlife. It's not like I can hop in my car and drive to Africa to see big cats or elephants, or drive to Austrailia to see kangaroos or koalas. I'm glad zoos have gotten better over the years building enclosures as close to nature as possible so that I may enjoy nature. But, I also respect wildlife and accept and understand what my position in life is in regards to them.
Like I said before, even the most docile "fu-fu" doggy is going to bite/attack you given the right circumstances; you don't think a tiger or a lion or a bear or an elephant will do the same? I feel bad for the parents who lost their son to a freak tiger attack in the U.S. And I feel bad for the boys who where attacked but survived to talk about it. They obviously will be scarred for life, both physically and mentally. If anything good comes out of it, zoos will modify the way they build enclosures, look and revamp rules and procedures of their parks, put in surveillance equipment and/or alarms.
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181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
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Post by 181lizard on Jan 2, 2008 14:21:40 GMT -5
I feel horrible for the family that lost their son.
Having given that its due...
OF COURSE there's gonna be a lawsuit! There's gonna be alot of finger pointing and "this wouldn't have happened if you'd have only"...blah - blah - blah. My best guess will be it'll go to a jury and they will assign percentages of blame between the zoo and the families. The zoo will get the majority of blame because of the wall height and they are the ones with the libility insurance coverage. As soon as it came out in the public that they didn't have things brought up to "code"...their goose was cooked.
When the dust settles, there will still be one dead boy & two that were mauled and we will probably read in the paper about how they ran through the insurance $$ like a bad case of brown bottle flu & it'll be everyone elses fault and someone will end up in jail or worse & ...
Get the picture?
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Post by takilasunrise on Jan 2, 2008 14:43:16 GMT -5
That's exactly what I said, Liz, about a civil lawsuit. It will go to trial. Everyone will get on the stand saying it's the other's fault. Then, the jury will have to assign percentages of a $ amount (like when I was on a jury for a car accident, both parties were running the yellow/red light and collided in an intersection....who was more at fault? It's hard to give someone money when they were in the wrong, too, but they did get hurt and needed their medical bills paid).
Obviously, there are many animal-lovers on this board who will side with the animals when dumb humans get involved, in which I am one of them. Yes, if it had been my child or a relative, I'd be feeling a little different, but I still wouldn't blame the tiger..........I would blame the humans. Yes, I would be upset that my child was taunting the animal and paid with his life for it, but in the end, the tiger should not have been able to get out......period. I just hope the survivors are mentally able to deal with it instead of wanting to take revenge on all tigers!
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Post by pho on Jan 2, 2008 15:17:58 GMT -5
If I was sitting on that jury the boys would end up with nothing. They were at fault...period.
I don't know of any laws that require the wall was to be a certain height. As I understand it, the height issue was a recommendation and not an absoulate.
If the boys win in a lawsuit and get big bucks, then the Zoo should sue them for getting their Tiger killed because of their negligent actions.
If it was my son, I would not blame the Zoo for his actions, I would blame him.
Guess they will have to start having an adult take idiots like these boys around the zoo and hold their hands so they will behave.
Just my opinion which may or may not be right.
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Post by midnightrocksi3 on Jan 2, 2008 15:23:26 GMT -5
I'm almost sure the zoo followed regulations.. if not yeah sure they are both at fault.. BUT.... they have done what they are suppose to do accordingly.. then it's clearly the boyz fault.... Oh my bad... it is always human error when it comes to these types of attacks.. why? because man kind has the need to capture and cage wild animals.. and young men have this need to prove their Alpha in them by whatever means possible..
Do I believe it's the kids fault that they were attacked.. Yes.. I believe that cat didn't wake up and think to itself.. Hmmm I think I'll have me a bite of stupid human today with a side order of dumb and dumber.. No.. that cat was probably minding her own miserable life when they decided to tease her with their own flesh.. how else did the shoe get in the cage? that right there proves they were ignoring all warnings ect..
will they sue.. probably .. will they win .. it sucks to say but probably.. I hope they get what they get.. maybe they can buy a brain with their new found money.. and maybe Humans will no longer be allowed to keep Dangerous WILD Animals On display ..
either way it's all about money now.. cuz the animal is dead..
Roxy
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Post by docone31 on Jan 2, 2008 16:15:33 GMT -5
I have exotic cats. Let me assure you, they rarely let you think they are pussy cats.
Same with the Tiger. I personally knew a gentleman who had a Tiger. He lived a phenominal time. He was with the animal from the time it was a kit. Even to the last days of its life, the Tiger would lay its head on his lap and suck his thumb. I later made a setting of a claw for him.
A place where animals are kept has a responsibilty. I do, I have to anticipate every POSSIBLE variation of human response to thing no one would ever think of. This is to protect the animal, not just the people privileged to be near the animal.
I am sure, the Zoo will be sued. I am sure the people involved were a cause.
Wild animals/people, something happens. Either the animals get pushed out, or the people are molested untill they eliminate the reason. Usually the animals.
Who was not guarding the conduct of the people at that Zoo? Animals are caged there, usually. Why destroy an animal for being an animal?
This whole thing is a shame. It is also nature at work. An Apex predator being an Apex predator. The smart survive. Guess who was not smart. Probably tasted like chicken.
The big cats are a privelege to have with you. Ralph and Muffy live in their own world. There is no doubt about that. We have few visitors here. That is good. Asian Leopard Cats are much easier to deal with than Servals. A Tiger? No thanks. The only one I knew used to lick my face. He would draw blood with each stroke of his tongue. He would bite, but never bite hard. I knew what he could do. I never relaxed.
Perhaps those three watched Jackass too many times.
My vote is for the Tiger.
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Post by Lady B on Jan 2, 2008 17:17:41 GMT -5
Whoever is ultimately assigned fault--either by an insurance company or a court of law--an innocent and magnificent Tiger is dead. She did nothing wrong. She simply followed her natural instincts.
Here in Florida we have thousands of magnificent wild alligators. There are all kinds of warnings telling people not to feed the alligators. There are signs posted to stay out of heavily infested waters. Tragically children have been captured and drowned/eaten by alligators which are then hunted down and killed. And in just about every case, it has been proven that people put food out for the gators so they could take their pictures and watch them sunning on the docks or banks of the rivers. Not too long ago a group of 10-12 year old boys defied warnings signs and parental admonitions and went swimming in mating season in a part of the river known to be heavily populated by gators. And they didn't just swim. They hollered and belly flopped and stirred up the mud...all signals to alligators of an easy meal. The ringleader of those boys--a 12 year old--died that day. And so did some gators because no one could be certain just by looking as to which gator was the "bad one".
We are all guests on this earth but sometimes we don't treat each other very well.
As for regulations about height and a sence of security because there are walls or fences...for anyone who is planning to visit Florida, please be aware that many homes near bodies of water are fenced in by 4-foot high cyclone fences. Gators stand about 18 inches when up and running. BUT when a gator sees a meal on the other side of a cyclone fence, it just hooks its front claws in that fence, pushes with its tail, and is up, over, and satisfied in a blink.
The Tiger scaled a wall in a blink, too. A blink that cost two lives--both precious in their respective rights.
Lady B
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Post by krazydiamond on Jan 2, 2008 18:46:18 GMT -5
well said, Lady B.
KD
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Post by texaswoodie on Jan 2, 2008 19:26:28 GMT -5
Because of zoos, some animals are with us that would not be here otherwise. More and more animals are loosing their habitats and zoos will be the only place they can live.
Same with hunters. If it were not for hunters, there would be no where near the deer and migratory birds that are in this country.
Whose fault? The zoo. They have an obligation to keep visitors safe, no matter how stupid they are.
Will they sue? Yes. Will they win? Yes. Is it right? NO
The parents of these kids have seen dollar signs flying and there will be no stopping them.
Curt
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Post by midnightrocksi3 on Jan 2, 2008 20:03:33 GMT -5
I understand the idea of preserving animals from going extinct. that's only right after all it's our fault they are dying out.. And I can see they are trying to make that animal as comfortable as possible.. . so now what .. we have to have a lid on it's box too? De-claw or De-fang them? I think they are still making the animals pay for human error..
If these boys did tease this animal until it was fed up to the point it wanted to kill.. then
Don't you think it's going to send out the wrong message.to everyone. if they don't have to be responsible for their own actions.. But.... .I'm afraid that zoo doesn't stand a chance.. as well as future wild animals in captivity.... it's call Lock down .. solitary confinment.. real nice way to preseve and protect .. and that's sad..
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,491
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 2, 2008 20:38:32 GMT -5
Wow! I always hate to see any animal killed for just being what they are, especially the tiger because animals have a natural purity. They can't help being what they are. Play with a bull and you'll likely get the horns! But I also feel for the humans, even if they were being a-holes which is what lots of humans are by nature. Shameful thing is, humans get to choose whether or not they behave badly or stupidly. Good for everyone to be reminded humans are only at the top of the food chain in our own minds while from a biological standpoint, we're just food. Of course, being involved in animal rescue, I like animals a lot better than I like a lot of humans. That said, I hate seeing large exotics caged period and if they must be caged, they should be caged properly, humanely and safely....Mel
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 2, 2008 21:34:48 GMT -5
One more event for the Darwin awards.
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Post by parfive on Jan 2, 2008 21:44:57 GMT -5
Tiger see . . . a coupla Dhaliwalls
Tiger think . . . Yummmmm, home cookin'
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