Safeguard your trade

If everybody would just follow the Golden Rule (treat others as you'd like to be treated) everything would be cool. Unfortunately, not everyone thinks like that.

I think folks may be over-reacting a little. We'd all like this forum to be our own little perfect world, but that's just not realistic. As anywhere else, everyone should keep in mind the old saying "Let The Buyer Beware". Personally, I've had wonderful dealings here, and made better friends that way. I appreciate the value of friendship and sharing, as most people here do. But there's always going to be the occasional "bad apple". If we dwell on it, we could "spoil the whole bunch".

Besides a handful of bum deals, hundreds of trades, sales, and buys have been made here, with all parties being happy. We've ALL seen the "deals" on eBay, and most of us have probably taken our lumps there. There's no absolute guarantee of a solid deal here, but I think we can all easily agree that your chances here are MUCH better than eBay, or even online stores.

As far as announcing that you have stuff for sale on eBay, I don't understand why that should be a problem or concern to anyone. Someone here might like to have that item!

When I sell here, I use PayPal exclusively, for the buyer's peace of mind and protection, even though the amounts are small. Call me Old School, but doing transactions on the internet still feels kinda wierd to me, so I figure it feels that way to others too, so I TREAT THEM AS I WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED ... I make sure that their purchase is protected. I PAY the PayPal fee for that protection.

As for trades versus buying and selling, there are pros and cons. With monetary transactions, either you get what you paid for or you don't. Trades can be a bit more complicated. What if you send the other party what you agreed to send, but he sends more? What if his (her) stuff turns out to be a lot better than what you sent in trade? Here's a personal example:

A couple of months ago, Ralph made me a dozen cabs in exchange for 10 pounds of Chrysocolla rough. I picked-out two nice pieces, weighing well over 10 pounds, sent him pics of the pieces, and shipped everything off to him. He sent me back GORGEOUS finished cabs, but it turned out that one of the pieces of rough I'd sent him wasn't so hot when he cut into it (you can't always tell how good stuff is from the outside). I told him that the next trip up to the mine I'd make absolutely sure that I'd send him some good stuff to make it up to him. He told me not to bother, not needed, we're good. Well, I haven't been up to the mine since then, due to rain, mud, and cold, but you can bet your bootie that Ralph IS going to be getting a package when he least expects it. Don't tell him. Shhhhh...

Anyway, you see what I mean. S**t happens. Even with the best of intentions, sometimes things just don't go the way "they should". So, when you buy, sell, or trade here, don't get yourself all upset if things don't go exactly according to plan. Stay in communication, be real and reasonable if a problem needs to be worked out, and either make good on your end or give the other person a chance to make good on their end. If you can't work a problem out and you've been ... screwed (pardon my French) ... call them out on the forum. At that point, THE REST OF YOUR FRIENDS HERE should know that there's a snake in the grass.

OH ... as far as "Local" rocks. I don't think many of us are geologists here. We all have cool stuff that we find locally, and often we really have no clue what the heck it is. I've bought and sold Local Stuff here, as have many others. As long as there are good pics and descriptions, no purposeful misrepresentation, and the price is right, it's all good. I LOVE seeing what other people are hounding! I also enjoy seeing how much I can cram into a flatrater! If that sort of thing doesn't interest you, just don't buy it.

All IMHO ... YMMV ...

The problem is not everyone will not follow the golden rule!


I don't think anyone is over reacting at all and nobody is declaring any of this as "rule"
It's merely a guideline, like I said before take it as some tips. Do as you wish. If you want to PM someone and then send them a box of nice rocks without doing something to protect yourself, thinking you'll get a nice box back then when it doesn't arrive in the next 6 months and you never hear from the other person again, don't complain a whole lot. Just maybe write a short paragraph about the person being a sheister.
I started this post after I had the thought of how someone could help agaist getting burned. It's starting to happen more and more. I understand that with more members the chances are more. Like Sands said, it really didn't happen much over 3 years ago when I first joined (maybe folks just didn't talk about it).
Again, do as you wish. Hope nobody gets ripped...

MichaelJohn - My concern about ebay is that there is a lot of sentiment that what happens on ebay stays on ebay. Or any concern about an ebay transaction might get reported in the Good/Bad Vendors section but not in this section. If a member wants to offer mention something for sale here, but list it on ebay (to get more eyes on listing), or complete the transaction with PayPal, I have no problem. But selling here always struck me as a perk for members who have helped to build and shape this board with their many posts and discussions. The recent rise of new members who join up and only post about something they are selling on ebay (or their website) it the kind of thing you open the door to when you make this section not only for selling something here, but also for free advertising of what you are selling elsewhere.

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Dee - One advantage of posting pics and just the details of the trade is that you do not have to voice disappointment, or be an exert rock judge. People looking at the pics of what you got can judge for themselves.

There are a few folks who might value their local rocks a bit to high, and there are also folks who do not realize that an inexpensive box may not burst with tons of color and solid fracture-free pieces.

Anyway, sad to hear you went through that.

Sands, I have to say I agree with Lady B. I'm a Newb &, by your defination, I'll probably always be a newb, cause I'm not here to post everyday. I don't believe longevity & long windedness are any criteria to judge by. Your comment "and the reason i say so many posts and time here is we never had this kinda stuff happen in the beginning -- then we started growing" means to me that you only want to trust the founding fathers. None of you had time served or posts tallied in the beginning. It really doesn't bother me if you don't want to trust me. Most of us don't know any of the members from Adam. I DO think there needs to be a section on the board, restricted to members only, where these problems can be aired. Maybe instead of stars under peoples names reflecting how much they talk, they could reflect some level of trustworthiness, simular to ebay. It wouldn't have to be that you gain stars when you sell or trade things. Maybe you start out with a rating of 100 & get points nocked off when something happens that should not have. I don't know the answer. But I DO know that any deal involves risk. If you don't have some modicum of trust in the person you are dealing with, then don't. If having a deal go sour will put you in a world of hurt, then you probably should not be doing it. No one likes to get ripped off, but it always has & probably always will happen to an unfortunate few.
That's my 2¢...

I know problems happen with trades as well as sales, heck they seem to be happening more with trades. Still, I wish this whole section would go away. Lots of new people seem to have come here just to sell. We are having all these discussions about who trusts who; newbies getting offended when oldtimers say we never used to have these problems.

This is intended to be a site about giving and getting advice, and sharing enthuasium about polished rocks and rockhounding.

If sales are so disruptive, I have to wonder if we would not get back closer to our roots if this section just went away.

I would really hate to see this section go away to. I'm a definite newbie and right now I don't know any of you and none of you know much about me. I would like to think you could count on getting a fair deal through the people on the forum (I just paid for boxes of rocks from two different members tonight), but we all know there's always a bad apple lurking just about anywhere you go. I do agree that if you have a problem with somebody it should be brought to everyones attention, but only after every some effort has been made privately between the concerned parties to resolve the issue. Like many of you have already said, things happen, so I would like to give the other person the benefit of the doubt and give them a chance to redeem themselves before dragging their name through the mud in public.

I would hope that if anybody thinks I have wronged them they would confront me first before going public. Just my two cents. As far as any hard set of rules, don't we have the government telling us what we can and can't do enough already. If everyone just uses a little common since everything will be just fine. So everybody just take a chill pill and lets get on with the business of rocks. I'm here to learn and perhaps someday pass on something useful myself, not discuss how I do my shopping.

I just re-read this and I see a lot of concern over trades with newbies. I was new once and I LUSTED after some of the wonderful rock I saw on here. I was treated very kindly BUT!!!!!!! I made sure I had payment (or trade) in the mail quickly. It is an unfortunate thing- being new- and very hard to build trust. SOme of the older memebers recall all the tmorris, jdennis, gemmaster problems we had (as for bam bams wife- well I sold some stuff to her without a hitch- but I guess others had some troubles) - the thing is those members had been here for a while- and had built some trust- only to turn on us and in a very short time rip off a number of people. Trust is earned around here- If your on the trading end with someone- and your not sure if they are ok- ASK! A simple PM to Earthdog, or Snowdog, or any of the older members will get you a suitable answer. If your trying to offer some stuff- expect that your going to fall under strong questioning- don't worry- if your honest it won't hurt a bit- after a couple of posititve results- people will ease up around you and trades will go much smoother- You earn trust around here- does not matter if you have 20 post or 20000- you earn it.

Hi guys! I didn't have time to read all the posts, but i was wondering if we could have a section where we can post that we are about to make a trade or sale with so-and-so, and describe what the agreement is. Then we can hold off for 24 hours and if anyone has had a bad experience with either of the people involved, they could pm the comment. that way we can be forwarned. Or, better yet, have a special section where there is a list of good people to trade with and people to be aware of. I don't know, having been away for a few months, we now have so many sections, it would take days to look thru them all!!! Personally, I liked it much better when i first started, when we just had a few, like general board, the buy and sell. I almost always went to the general board. Now I don't know what is where! I'm not too fond of the phone number idea. too easy to screen your calls and they'll never pick up anyway. and if someone...like gemmaster for instance....screws people over and leaves, what's to keep him from coming back under a new name?? who would ever know?? He could be one of the newbies right now!! There are far too many dishonest people in this world, it's just impossible to screen them all. A newbie might be a saint, where an oldie could turn on you, you just don't know! I'll be the guinny (sp) pig. I'm selling 20 pounds of Laredo Agates to Parfive. He's sending me a check, because he doesn't do PayPal. If anyone thinks I should NOT send the rocks until I get his check, PM me immediately. He seems like a great guy, and I have no problem trusting him....or do I??? Just kidding Parfive, hope you are OK with me mentioning your name!! If I don't get that check, I'll hunt you down like a mad dog!!!! :-) Sieg

I think the box will bounce just fine, i filled it with tennis balls!!! hee hee!!