free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
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Post by free4rms on Feb 3, 2008 23:22:10 GMT -5
I have been buying rough rock on eBay for a long time now, and there are a few things I see all the time now that bug me a bit about pricing and material offered. I thought I would run them by you other members and see what you guys think.
One thing that really irks me is that so many people only offer one shipping method, and that is priority mail flat rate box. I can't tell you how many times I might have considered bidding on something that could be shipped for a lot less if sent regular parcel post. Especially smaller pieces of rock that would not cost that much at parcel post prices. I know that you might be able to contact the seller and ask if they could ship it cheaper, but many times the seller won't even bother to answer or will not ship any other way. I'll bet that a *lot* of material would sell better if people were not immediately turned off by the high shipping cost. What's going on? Do all these sellers think that every single person in the lapidary world has no patience and must have everything within three days? I would be more than willing to wait for a week to recieve a package if I could save significantly on the shipping.
Secondly, and I am sure many of you will agree with me, high on my pet peeve list are people who think you are so stupid you will not recognize hugely inflated shipping costs. I understand you can contact eBay and complain about some of these sellers, and I hope everyone takes advantage of this opportunity. People who don't have the guts to sell something at a higher price and instead try to sucker someone with high shipping are the low lifes of eBay in my opinion. A small handling charge is understandable but some of the shipping costs are just plain fraud. I would love to see eBay ban sellers who consistently try to cheat people on shipping costs.
One last issue and then I am off the soap box: I have been watching listings on rough rock for a long time, but does anyone else think that there is more and more junk rock being offered? I realize the people are entitled to sell off unwanted, lower grade stuff, but it seems that at any given time, there is a very high percentage of pure junk being offered. You know the type of rock I am talking about....pitted material, lots of cracks, "top shelf specimen rock" that are the poorest quality you can imagine. I almost want to ask some sellers to maybe mix in something of quality with the leaverites. Now, don't get me wrong, there are still a lot of great buys to be made on rough rock, and I don't mean to offend any sellers who might be members of RTH. And maybe I am getting so selective that what I consider junk may be a treasure to someone else. But, I sure would like to see a return to the earlier days when there was better rock for auction.
I would comment on the topic of crappy, dark photos on some auctions, but I promised to get off the soap box.
What do you guys think? Anyone agree or disagree? Feedback welcome.
Vance
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Post by captbob on Feb 3, 2008 23:44:55 GMT -5
Hello Vance, Priority Mail boxes are free. That may be why so many ship that way, they don't have to dumpster dive for boxes or buy them. Have you bought boxes lately? $$
My pet peeve with eBay sellers is the:
"Not responsible for items shipped without insurance!"
Wanna bet??!! If I pay with Paypal, and the item is not insured, I don't give a rat's rear end. If it shows up damaged (or not at all) you can bet that I would file with Paypal for my money back. Not that this happens even once a year... BUT, when it does, I have always gotten my money back.
EVERYTHING that I sell on eBay has insurance included in the shipping cost. A seller is plain dumb shipping anything of value without insurance. Maybe something less than $50 would be okay, but they should at least have delivery confirmation on the package then.
< /rant >
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Post by cpdad on Feb 3, 2008 23:48:09 GMT -5
me agrees in way....astrogallery comes to mind....but hey ....folks see the shipping in the auction....so be it.
they do not quote flat rate boxes....sometimes they quote fed ex...and stuff like that by weight.....a lot more expensive than it needs to be.....then sends usps flatrate......nothing you can do....you read the auction...and agreed to the shipping charges.
i hate folks that i give stuff to...and then they pass it on to others....and i see the stuff for sale on ebay....kev.
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free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
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Post by free4rms on Feb 4, 2008 7:50:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I can understand the allure of free boxes for priority mail. But, I still suspect that having to charge the extra for priority mail (when someone would rather pay the cheaper parcel post) would stop some people from bidding at all. And the seller would then lose the profit gained from the free boxes.
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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 4, 2008 8:25:21 GMT -5
Unless it is a light weight package, the cost of Parcel vs Priority is minimal. If I have to buy a box or padded envelope, I have to reflect that cost in my shipping charges which makes the difference even more minimal.
Curt
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huffstuff
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since August 2007
Posts: 1,222
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Post by huffstuff on Feb 4, 2008 9:26:26 GMT -5
I haven't bought anything on ebay yet, but I, too, am disappointed at the photos some sellers put up. I would appreciate more than one view, and both wet and dry.
Is there an expense for "hosting" more pictures on ebay? There is a cost to the seller for his time and effort in taking the photos, uploading, etc. What do y'all think? Is it the norm to post fewer photos when the item for sale will not bring in much money to the seller? Or do some sellers provide the same amount of detail whether it's a $5 slab or a $20 slab?
Maybe I've answered my own question, that with the $10 and under slabs I look at, it isn't cost-effective (in terms of the seller's time) to post tons of pics.
Is seems to me like the use of FRB's is also a way for the seller to entice you to buy/win more from them, so you feel you're getting your "money's worth" on the shipping. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, just learn the general thought process involved in ebay buying/selling.
This is a great thread. It will help us decide (for ourselves) what to look for in an auction.
My 2 cents. Thanks.
Amy
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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 4, 2008 10:07:37 GMT -5
Amy
After mid Feb. the cost of selling a $5 slab will outweigh any profit that could have possibly been made. The only way anyone can come out with any kind of profit is to sell 5 slabs for $25 in the same auction.
There are some sellers that cannot take a decent photo. There are some who intentionally have bad photos so you can't get a good idea of what you're buying. There are some sellers that show good photos of everything they put up. You just have to weed 'em out.
Curt
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Post by akansan on Feb 4, 2008 12:09:24 GMT -5
I stopped my regular surfing of rock-related auctions almost 8 months ago because the quality or lot sizes just didn't interest me. I still have a favorites list that I check out every now and then.
As for shipping amounts, I would still rather fill up a flat-rater and pay $9.50 (or so) from my preferred sellers than get one rock at a time in the mail. Most of the people I check out for slabs will also send those out at a lesser rate.
Cpdad - right there with you on that one. Watching gifted items appear on ebay is disgruntling.
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mirkaba
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2006
Posts: 321
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Post by mirkaba on Feb 4, 2008 12:37:56 GMT -5
cpdad..........I agree about Astrogallery. The last bloodstone I bought from them arrived USPS after I was billed for Fedex at twice the price and there wasn't even a speck of red in it..... Bob
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Post by stardiamond on Feb 4, 2008 14:48:02 GMT -5
Most of slabs have been bought on ebay and I give a small group of sellers a lot of repeat business. Having a good relationship with a seller has a lot of benefits including shipping costs and returns or adjustments. Whenever I bid on items from someone else, I realize I am taking a chance. You can always contact a seller regarding shipping or other issues for bidding.
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Post by Michael John on Feb 4, 2008 18:47:55 GMT -5
IMO, USPS Priority Mail FRBs are the best thing since sliced bread. I mailed one out last week that was over 29 pounds! The flat rate envelope is also an excellent deal, as you can fit a lot of slabs in there.
It's the companies that DON'T use FRBs that make me mad. Their scam is that the shipping charge that the buyer pays is based on the eBay calculator. UPS and others have lower rates that are available. So, although you see that calculated price, that's not what the seller is paying. IMO, sellers should only be allowed to charge what they pay for shipping, including things such as insurance and delivery reciepts. If they want to charge a handling fee, then it should have to be clearly listed as an extra and separate charge.
Soon, eBay's selling fees will be going up over 50% on items under $25. Once that's in place, you're going to see a lot of people jacking their prices way up and combining pieces into bigger lots. The competition is going to get even more fierce than it already is, and there are going to be a lot more rip-offs.
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Post by cpdad on Feb 4, 2008 19:00:36 GMT -5
cap i told someone a while back that this phrase "Not responsible for items shipped without insurance!"...was the dumbest thing i ever heard... if i paid with credit card thru paypal...not sure they beleived me though ;D
i think most folks within the next 2 years will go to usps flatrate boxes....a good friend of mine thinks ebay will figure out a way to include shipping in the final value fees....who knows.
yep...flat rate boxes are dogon near as nice as bread ;D.
i wanted to say this...the rocks i gave away that ended up on ebay was not put there by a member here...kev.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,497
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 4, 2008 22:18:40 GMT -5
I buy and sell on E-Bay and am also offended by folks who charge excessive shipping and handling. I feel it's more honest to post a fair price and charge as close as possible to actual shipping. Sellers should not make money on shipping and handling. I usually let the buyer choose how they want their item sent but priority usually works out to be an OK deal for most items.
Regarding free4rms point on quality of rock I've got to say I agree. I suspect the sheer quantity of cutting material being sold through E-Bay is pretty much exhausting the supply of high quality rough and slabs. I've also spoken with rough sellers though, that insist China is the major cause of of material depletion. Several folks who should know say Chinese buyers now have trailers at almost every major site producing good cutting rough in Mexico and pay premium prices to scoop up all the good stuff leaving US buyers with a lot of second quality material. I guess it's probably a bit of both. I sure have noticed that on E-Bay now, the bidding for really great slabs is incredibly competitive. I can't win much on my budget, that's for sure *L*.
Another pet peeve I have regarding E-Bay buys, is failure of lots of dealers to state condition of material, properly identify material. or adequately describe items for sale. I've had a lot of badly fractured slabs, badly pitted material, slabs where the color was highly enhanced, or pics taken wet to hide flaws. All these things should be mentioned in the description but for a single slab or two, it's just not worth getting into a bitching war or returning the items. It also gives me a chuckle to see the misidentified items are never misidentified as something of lesser value. It's always the $1.00 per pound Mcdermitt Jasper being sold as $20 per pound Biggs or something of that nature. Never the other way around. Just my 2 cents worth....Mel
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Post by Michael John on Feb 5, 2008 1:13:26 GMT -5
The quality issue is largely temporary...
The big Tucson show is upon us. Dealers have been prepping and hoarding for it for months. They want to have the best stuff for the show, and as much of it as possible. Once the show is over, eBay will be flooded with the stuff they didn't sell.
Also, keep in mind that since it's February, most people who mine and rockhound have been mostly hibernating for many months. Everything they collected last year is long gone. Once spring hits, people will be back out collecting and their materials will be back on the market.
What we must be aware of is that the earth took millions of years to make all of these gems. Millions of people, workdwide, are now scurrying around to gather it up for profit. The supplies are quickly dwindling. Over the last 100 years, here in Nevada, people have picked the land clean. All that's left is mostly scavenging efforts. It won't be long before the whole world is like that. Supply and demand dictates that as time goes on, the prices will continue to escalate.
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free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
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Post by free4rms on Feb 5, 2008 9:05:40 GMT -5
After reading the replies to this post I started, I realized that maybe I did not know all the facts concerning flat rate boxes. Are they always sent priority mail? If you had merchandise that would only fill half the box, would it still be cheaper to send that by regular parcel post? I guess my main complaint was not offering an alternative to priority mail. But, if the savings with a FRB was great enough, then it would be a moot point.
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Post by captbob on Feb 5, 2008 9:39:42 GMT -5
If I couldn't fill the Flat rate box, I have smaller Priority boxes that I would use. It's all about the free boxes! If you don't buy boxes in bulk the cost per box can get stupid. I've spent a dollar on box before!
So, if I have a light weight to ship, I can send it Priority for around $4 OR I can send it Parcel Post for what... $2.50 (? just a guess) and then I have to charge for a box.
I don't have the room to store 50 gazillion boxes and people get bent having me add to the ACTUAL shipping cost to cover my expense for the box. It's a no win situation for me, so I do what's easiest ... Priority Mail.
Yes, Flat Rate boxes are Priority ONLY.
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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 6, 2008 10:04:11 GMT -5
I've spent as much as $5 on a box before. This is something people don't understand that have never done it before.
Curt
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Post by Michael John on Feb 6, 2008 14:48:27 GMT -5
What people don't understand, just to sell a slab, you have to:
* Obtain the rough
* Cut the slabs
* Take pictures
* Transfer the pics from camera to computer
* Write and design the ads
* Monitor the auctions
* Answer questions
* Package the orders
* Mail the packages
* Wait for and give feedback
* Pay eBay and PayPal
You have AT LEAST a couple hours of your time into each and every auction. So, if you're doing $5 auctions, you're screwing yourself, big time. Who's time is worth less than $2.50 an hour? Even selling stuff here on the forum, you still have to do all of the things listed above except for the last two. Your time is still invested!
IMO, the best way to buy and sell slabs is in groups, so that each transaction amount is enough to make it worth your time. I mean, think about it ... how can you ask someone to "donate" a couple hours of their time to sell you one slab for $5? Also, by buying more slabs, the buyer is getting a much better deal on shipping.
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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 6, 2008 15:35:06 GMT -5
I never sell anything for less than $10. Now it's going to have to be $25. As I stated earlier in this thread, if you're selling $5 slabs, you better group them into $25 lots. And ship them with a free box.
Curt
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Post by Michael John on Feb 8, 2008 2:21:50 GMT -5
Free, I don't know the rates off the top of my head, but Parcel Post is NOT cheap. If I remember correctly, I think 4 pounds costs more than a flat rater, and the cost varies according to Post Office "zones". That's why eBay has postage calculators. Take a look at stuff on eBay that weighs over $5 and see what the calculator tells you the shipping will be. THEN you'll understand why flat raters ROCK.
So what motivation would a seller have NOT to use flat raters for rocks weighing 5-25 pounds? They don't PAY as much for shipping as the calculator says (shippers have deals), so the seller pockets the difference! On the other side of the coin, you'd be VERY hard-pressed to find a seller who is over-charging or ripping you off by using s flat rater ... charging a higher shipping price does not interest a seller if he's not making money on it, as that would be counter-productive to selling!
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