ragtimeman
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2008
Posts: 6
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Post by ragtimeman on May 15, 2008 15:32:54 GMT -5
Hello all;
I'm relatively new at the lapidary hobby (compared to many of you, at least), and I have a few questions I'd like to ask. First, some background.
Currently, I have 2 tumblers, both Lortone rotary type, one with three 1.5 lb barrels, and one with two 3 lb barrels. I've ran about 6 to 8 batches of stones, mostly agates and jasper, in the two 3 lb barrel unit, having just acquired the other unit. I'm very happy with the polish I get with the standard tumbling process, and I use cerium oxide for the final polish, and soap for a burnish.
Also, I've purchased a set of plans on e-bay for a combination cabbing unit, modified the drawings to suit my taste, and built the unit, and, since I work at a food handling equipment company, I now have a stainless steel unit that I'm very happy with. Although the drawings did not have a water supply system, I added that feature.
On the cabbing unit I have 1) 6" diamond blade, 2) 1" x 6" SC grinding wheel, 3) two 2-1/2" wide SC sanding belts, and 4) a 6" polishing disk.
I've made a few cabs, and enjoy very much making these. However, I'd like to explore ways of speeding up the process. I've read enough posts on this site to decide that there are some possible ways to speed up my particular methods, and would like to solicit your ideas to see if I'm heading in the right direction. My thoughts are:
1) replace my SC grinding wheel with a diamond wheel. Surely this will speed up the rough shaping process, won't it? If so, what kind of wheel should I buy?
2) I've acquired diamond sanding belts, but haven't put them on yet. Will they speed up the shaping and pre-polish steps?
3) rather than using dopping wax as I have in the past, I've bought some of the green label super glue. Have yet to try it, but that should be much faster than the wax in my opinion. Am I right?
4)I've thought about tumble polishing my stones rather than using the leather disk, and eliminate that manual step. That should take some time out of the whole process.
In order to try my thoughts I've been just shaping a number of stones in the last couple of weeks, hoping to get enough to run in a tumbling barrel. Just shaping them seems to take quite some time for me, though. I'm able to spend about 10 hours a week at this, but after a couple of weeks, I only have maybe 12 cabs ready to tumble.
Does this seem about right to the rest of you?
Do any of you have any other suggestions for me to try?
Thanks in advance.
John
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Post by stardiamond on May 15, 2008 16:09:08 GMT -5
I do all my work using diamond wheels and paste similar to a Genie set up. The polishing is the shortest part of the process. A lot of people here do rough shaping using a saw and wheel(s) and then do the sanding and polishing with their tumblers. If I were trying to do as little grinding as possible, I would like use a 80 grit diamond wheel and a 220 grit diamond wheel to get the shape and then tumble the rest.
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lapidopterix
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2008
Posts: 216
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Post by lapidopterix on May 15, 2008 16:13:11 GMT -5
Diamond wheel and belts would speed things up quite a bit. Using a vibratory tumbler would speed up your polishing and keep the shapes you cut from being worn away.
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Post by akansan on May 15, 2008 16:16:46 GMT -5
Biggest improvement in time you can do is to switch to diamond all the way through. I think you'll be amazed at the amount of time you save.
If you had room on your machine, I would recommend getting two hard diamond wheels - 80 and 220. That would save you one more change out on your expanding drums as well.
Also, what are you using as your final polish on the cabs? Cerium Oxide as well?
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ragtimeman
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2008
Posts: 6
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Post by ragtimeman on May 16, 2008 4:34:00 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your input.
Sounds like 80 grit and 220 grit diamond wheels plus a vibratory tumbler are the way to go.
Yes, I'm using only cerium oxide as a polish. What would you recommend?
John
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Post by larrywyland3 on May 16, 2008 6:35:05 GMT -5
One rule I was taught was that it is better to cut away than grind away. You can get a pretty good shape by using the saw blade. Some on the site have even put 45 degree edges on the preform with the saw and then tumbled.
When I deal with agates I use a 45 or 60 grit hard diamond wheel. Some are more chippy and the 45 is to coarse.
A vibe tumbler is much faster than a rotary; it does not do much in the way of rounding or shaping, but if you got em the way you want em and just want to shine that will work.
If you use a rotary for the polishing be sure to add plastic pellets and I stick in some smaller tumble that has already been through polish. This makes the right mix and also helps to ensure that there are no rough edges that will scratch anything.
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ragtimeman
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2008
Posts: 6
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Post by ragtimeman on May 16, 2008 8:10:32 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your answers to my questions. I can see that I have come to the right place! I've looked at the various profiles of those that have answered, and you all certainly have a lot of experience!
akansan - I sure like your web site and the work you do! I'm sure you all do fine work, but I'm limited to the photos I can look at on forums here at work due to our firewall. I'll have to wait until I'm at my home computer for those.
But, I have more questions, if you'll bear with me.
On my current unit, I have 3 wheels, all 6" dia, the 1" wide SC hard wheel, and the other two are 2-1/2" wide belts, mounted on the Lortone exact-span rubber drums. I have the two diamond belts that I've bought, but not mounted, and they are a 220 grit, and 600 grit.
So, my question is, would it make sense to replace the 1" wide SC wheel with an 80 grit hard diamond wheel (1-1/2" wide), and use the 220 grit diamond belt for now rather than a second hard diamond 220 grit wheel? I think I can fit the 1-1/2" wide wheel in place of the 1" wide one by making a couple of different shaft spacers.
Secondly, for the vibe tumbler, which kind is best? It might not last as long, but what about the $50 unit from Harbor Freight? Also, what kind of grit or polish should I use in it after shaping the stones on the 80 and 220 grit wheel and belt steps? And, what type of tumbling medium works best?
Thanks again for your patience,
John
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Post by johnjsgems on May 16, 2008 8:53:13 GMT -5
I'd wear out the S/C wheel and then install an 80 and 200 grit 1.5" wheel and leave one expando for belts. Add some belts (400, 1200, 3000 as a minimum) and you'll have a nice machine. You were right about saw blades. Tile blades are softer-matrix and won't cut nearly as fast or smooth as a good lapidary blade.
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Post by akansan on May 18, 2008 12:20:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliment! I've learned everything I know about rocks and wire-wrapping here. It really is the most helpful informative site on the 'net.
As for vibes, you'll probably have better luck getting an answer in the tumbling section. I haven't heard much good about the Harbor Freight unit, but Rgcopeland/rockdewd was doing an experiment on them.
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Post by stoner on May 18, 2008 14:52:02 GMT -5
One of the things I did recently to speed things up and save wear and tear on my coarse wheel, was to stack 7 6" cheap saw blades together to make a super grinding wheel. It eats agate like butter and I'm able to take odd sized pieces and grind them down to preform shapes in a matter of minutes.
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free4rms
freely admits to licking rocks
My little pet walrus
Member since January 2007
Posts: 839
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Post by free4rms on May 18, 2008 16:44:36 GMT -5
Hey Stoner,
I am glad you brought up the tip on stacking cheap 6 inch diamond blades and then using them as a grinding wheel. I posed a question about this to the forum quite awhile back and never really got the answer I was looking for. When you stack the blades together and tighten down everything to hold them together as much as possible, when you grind on the edges of the six blades, do you get any movement from the edges of the blades? Or do they act the same as one solid diamond wheel would when you press hard agate against them? Also, what diameter shaft to you have on your grinding machine? Mine is 3/4 inches, so I would need to made the standard 5/8 hole in a six inch diamond wheel larger. What is the easiest way to make the hole larger without making the final hole off-center? Maybe put a 5/8 inch drill bit in a drill press, line the hole in the saw blade up with the drill bit, and then clamp the blade down? And then switch to a 3/4 inch drill bit and slowly feed it through the smaller hole? As you can tell, I am anything but a machinist. Thanks for any info you or anyone else can offer on this.
Vance aka Free4rms
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Post by stoner on May 18, 2008 21:36:03 GMT -5
Hey Vance. All of the blades rotate as one wheel. They said in the article to use spacers in between the blades so that when you tighten the arbor nut, the blades won't bow out near the edge, but I didn't have that problem. I have a 1" shaft on my grinder and it just so happens the blades I had also had a 1" hole. You could enlarge the hole the way you described, but I would make sure the blade is clamped tightly with the clamps as close to the hole as possible. Or, buy a 3/4" ream and just use a ream to enlarge the hole.
I'm finding out now that I need to re arrange the order of the blades every so often as I am wearing the center blades more that the outer ones.
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ragtimeman
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2008
Posts: 6
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Post by ragtimeman on May 22, 2008 8:05:37 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the fine answers to my questions, and the tips for trying and doing things better in the future. My hat is off to all of you and this forum for the great information.
I still have a few questions, though.
1) Has anyone ever used a Gy-roc cabber, as sold by Kingsley North and probably others? Does it work? If so, how well, etc.
2) akansan asked me if I was using Cerium Oxide on the cabs, and I am so far. Should I use something else for a vibe tumbler? Also, is there a tumbling medium I should use in particular?
3) Also, I did a search on this forum, but didn't find any reference to CFC Jewelry Supply of Michigan. I wondered if anyone is using their castings for mounting cabs. They seem to have a pretty good selection of settings and templates.
4) johnjsgems - thanks for your tips too. You confirmed what I was thinking already.
5) stoner - Sounds like a neat idea with the stacked blades. I may give that a try after I wear out the SC wheel, and before buying a 80 grit diamond wheel.
Thanks again.
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Post by akansan on May 22, 2008 8:55:37 GMT -5
Hey there again - I asked about the Cerium Oxide simply because of the time factor you mentioned. Many of the "old-timers" (not on this board, but in the hobby) would go from 600 to CO. Most of us that I know here use diamond paste for polish, thanks to the diamond proselytizing of Stoner. It requires more steps (I have five steps in my polish cycle).
In tumbling, most of us swear by Aluminum Oxide. But again, you'd get a better response to any vibe questions in the tumbling section.
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Post by bobby1 on May 22, 2008 10:05:30 GMT -5
I'm one of the old, old timers (50 years cabbing) and I use 8" S/C belts up to the 600 grit and then go to the Cerium Oxide on a carpet wheel for polish. I use an 80 grit diamond wheel for grinding. Has anyone heard if Jadecarver has any 80 grit wheels in stock yet?
Bob
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