Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 7, 2008 14:57:17 GMT -5
I recently bought a Lot O to go with my Lortone and I'm having a blast with it! Boy, does it ever speed up the process!
I wanted to post pictures of my first tumbled batch ever, but unfortunately my kids got a hold of the bowl and everything is gone!
In the vibe thus far I've tumbled some opal and turquoise with no problems, what about amber? This is copal amber, so it's not as old as the other ambers -- does that make it softer in any way?
I'm currently using Connrock's recipe (awesome!) for the vibe, should I just add the amber at the start? Or perhaps in the 500g?
Thanks
Eileen
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Post by akansan on Jul 7, 2008 15:36:11 GMT -5
Um - Copal Amber is softer than Amber...and amber is about a Mohs 2. For a comparison, Turquoise is a Mohs 5. I'd avoid putting Amber in the tumbler...
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 8, 2008 14:41:32 GMT -5
I tumbled a pound of rough Columbian copal to grind away the dull exterior to look for bugs. I used 60/90 in a Mini-Sonic. Never went any further as it was bug free. I shaped a few pieces on my Genie just to get a feel. It actually felt harder than you would think. I have a friend that dry sands specimens with wet/dry paper.
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Post by akansan on Jul 8, 2008 15:02:11 GMT -5
Interesting! I've always heard that it sort of "melts" when applied to wheels if you're not careful. Granted a tumbler at least would remove any heat from the equation.
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Post by connrock on Jul 9, 2008 5:34:40 GMT -5
I've never done any amber in the LO but would think it would get eaten up pretty fast no matter what grade grit you start with.
"Maybe" a few hours in 220 just to shape it and then poilsh it by hand??
connrock
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 10, 2008 18:22:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies! Copal amber is really cheap to buy, so if I waste it it's just a learning experience for me. I decided just to follow your recipe, Connrock, and threw some small pieces in 220 with everything else. Since it's vibe, it's not going to float like it would in a rotary. It's been almost 36 hours and it hasn't dissolved at all. Tumbling nicely, which is a huge surprise to me. As for it melting, yah, copal is used by Native Americans as incense and the smell is really awesome. I mean odd awesome  If you have a small piece, burn a corner and take a sniff. Kinda peppery smell -- I love it! I do have a tin of black copal resin that I bought years ago and it cost me 10$. I can grind the 7$ worth of copal I bought online and get four tins. Talk about a savings I have 20grams of Dominican amber from ambericawest.com coming and I hope that stuff tumbles really well. I'm not looking for a shine or anything, just a nice "rich" tone. I make gemstone wire tree sculptures and I really want to make an amber gemstone tree. I think it's fitting Eileen |
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Post by connrock on Jul 11, 2008 3:41:14 GMT -5
Wow Eileen that's a shock!! I would think after 36 hrs the copal would be gone!
This is another LO experiment "notch in the belt"!
Thanks and PLEASE keep us up-dated???
connrock
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 12, 2008 0:24:13 GMT -5
I took everything out and noticed a "sludge pool" in the bottom. Sigh. Once again I didn't use enough different sized rocks. Some of the copal was stuck in there, but much of it was out and about.
Anyhow, I've added some small river stones and set things up and moving again. I'll take everything out tomorrow and see how it went.
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Post by connrock on Jul 12, 2008 3:05:55 GMT -5
If you're getting thick sludge at the bottom of the barrel it's a sure sign of not enough water "at the right time".
If you check it more often and just add a squirt or 3 from a spray bottle or until the load turns nice again you won't get that bottom muck.
connrock
Ps:add a tad of powdered soap too.
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 12, 2008 6:41:58 GMT -5
Nod, I'm still learning! I'll get it sooner or later Borax work? I've found that putting Borax in the rotary for all stages really helps with the tumbling, but I wasn't sure if that was kosher with vibes. Thought it might keep the slurry from sticking to the stones. Eileen |
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Post by Michael John on Jul 12, 2008 10:57:14 GMT -5
Eileen, could you please post pics of of your latest gem trees? Love to see your work.
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 12, 2008 16:27:35 GMT -5
Eileen, could you please post pics of of your latest gem trees? Love to see your work. I have a virtual forest of them now -- I just have to fashion a light box and get taking pictures. Thus far I have another carnelian that has a horse underneath rose quartz (cherry tree) rose quartz beaded (weeping cherry) rhodonite (didn't come out as nice as I would have liked) labradorite beaded (weeping) blue lace agate amethyst turquoise & copper (custom made for someone) opal & non-tarnish gold (in process, custom for person above. I'm retumbling some of the opal I got as I was not happy with what I bought) plus the stuff I think I posted already (garnet, prehnite, labradorite) and I have five waiting for time. One of the slabs stonesthatrock sent me is really big so I'm going to put two trees on that one. Man, I love making these trees Eileen |
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 12, 2008 18:50:38 GMT -5
I pulled the copal out of the tumbler and it hasn't degraded at *all*, so I am incredibly pleased.
Now, my theory as to why -- although copal is soft, it's not brittle. I cut all the copal up with a pair of wire cutters. It did break along fault lines and stuff, but it had a slight resilience to the cutters.
Stuff that breaks or disintegrates is usually brittle -- breaks in fractures, I think the term is? -- correct? Like obsidian, shell, et al.
Copal, when it burns, bubbles, which I think indicates some moisture content.
So I think this is why it worked in the vibe. I will try some in the rotary, too, just for kicks and giggles.
Now, what I *am* really, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY upset/pissed off/wanna kill about is the amber I ordered from Amberica West. I paid $30 for 20 grams of Dominican amber. It came today. The first thing I did was burn the edge of one.
IT'S PLASTIC! FAKE! Goddamn thieves! The smoke stunk like a plastic knife handle stuck in the heating element in the dishwasher.
UGH!
What I'm not 100% sure about is whether it's supposed to smell like copal or not. What I am 100% sure about is that it should not smell like burning plastic.
Grrr.
Eileen
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Post by connrock on Jul 13, 2008 4:58:27 GMT -5
Eileen,
Something that I think is very important in just about anything we do is to experiment!
You can call it "trial and error" too! LOL
When I first joined this group MANY of us were in the "embryo" stage but after a LOT of experimenting we weeded out the bad and shared the good!
We also found that what works for one doesn't always work for all or even some of us.That's why we MUST try what WE think might work.
Everything in my recipe came from a LOT of experimenting and it works great for me.Others have found their own recipes and they also work great for them.
A little ditty I like to use is this,,,,,
There are probably a million recipes for apple pie,,,,,
It's up to you to decide which pie YOU like the best!
If I told you some of the "stuff" I've put into my vibe and rotary tumblers you would DEFINITELY think I was NUTS!!!
I doubt very seriously that when Mark started this group he would actually be revolutionizing the "art" of rock tumbling but he has!
Nowhere on Mother Earth will you find ANYTHING like this web site and we ALL got here when it was the Garden of Eden!
All an experiment will cost you is time,,,,A LOT of mine was spent cleaning up HUGE messes!!! LOL
"Try it,,,,You'll like it,,,,,or maybe not"!!!
connrock
Ps: I think we are all learning about copal from YOU now!
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 19, 2008 1:36:03 GMT -5
Okay, here are my "preliminary" results. Went very well, but no shine and lots of scratches. I'm going to try tumbling these by themselves to see if I can improve how they came out. Finished:  No, they didn't shrink or anything. I need these for leaves on wire trees, so they are cut very small. Here is some raw cut stuff I did tonight. They are in the vibe right now:  The only thing in the vibe right now is the copal, with ceramic media, "finished" marbles and aquarium gravel (stuff that has gone through to the end). Wish me luck Eileen |
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Post by connrock on Jul 20, 2008 4:39:46 GMT -5
GOOD LUCK!!!! Make sure you always have enough weight in the barrel or you will get the wrong action and also have a good chance of breaking the springs. You can "fool" the tumbler into thinking it has enough weight! Get 2 of the small bungee chords.Put a 1" long wood screw (about 1/2 way in),, into the wooden base of the tumbler aligning it with the center of the side of the barrel.Try to get as close as possible (by eye is good).Do this on both sides. Hook the bungee chord onto the tumbler frame with one hook at the back and the other at the front.Take the bungee chord as close to the center as possible and stretch it to fit over the wood screw. You can adjust the tension by tying knots in the ends of the bungee chord.  thanks for the up-date on the copal and where's our photo's?  connrock |
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 21, 2008 13:43:08 GMT -5
Connrock,
Thanks for the bungee cord idea! I'm going to pop over to Sears and get a couple. I had *no* idea that loading a vibe too light could damage the springs.
I did post some pictures of the copal I'm tumbling now on Page 1. Were you unable to see them?
Eileen
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rockcandy
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2006
Posts: 12
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Post by rockcandy on Jul 26, 2008 11:04:47 GMT -5
Beautiful light play in the amber. I found a jumbo egg-sized, flawless , amber colored "gem" in Wyoming a few years ago. I didn't know what it was, but thought amber had to have "bugs" in it, and ASSUMED (BAD!) it was in the quartz family. I put it in my Lortone rotary tumbler, and it shrunk to 1/4 of the size. I have had it set aside since then, still not sure what to do with it. It has an almost opalescent light play inside - so pretty! Anyway, now I see it has a crack in it. Luckily we are going back to Wyoming later this summer. Too bad I can't remember where exactly I found it. Anyway, thanks for posting this. Live and learn! I HATE wrecking my stones!
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Roan
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2008
Posts: 600
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Post by Roan on Jul 26, 2008 11:58:22 GMT -5
Rockcandy, If you find a bunch and want to unload it, I'm here One of the large rough pieces of amber I bought had an embedded mosquito under the matrix. Well, half a mosquito. All the wings and legs are there and it looks pretty cool. I'm hoping most of it survives. I'm at the 1000g AO stage and so far it's staying put. I'm going to try a walnut shell/red rouge tumble as a final polish for the amber and copal. Hoping that will do the trick. |
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Post by connrock on Jul 27, 2008 5:24:54 GMT -5
I didn't miss the photo's of the amber,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it's the gem trees we are all waiting to see!!!
connrock
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If you have a small piece, burn a corner and take a sniff. Kinda peppery smell -- I love it! I do have a tin of black copal resin that I bought years ago and it cost me 10$. I can grind the 7$ worth of copal I bought online and get four tins. Talk about a savings 
