cutter
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2008
Posts: 129
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Post by cutter on Aug 2, 2008 13:53:38 GMT -5
Howdy everyone. Wednesday I went to listen to T.Boone Pickens first town hall meeting in Topeka KS. If you are not aware of his plan, Please go to push.pickensplan.com/ and do a little reading. Regardless of your political affiliations, this man has a plan to help America with it's energy problems and economic woes. He has put up $58 million of his own money to promote this concept. He is trying to get a million people to join his army to force this plan into the face of every official that will be on the ballot in November. He is in my mind,a great American to take up this cause. Right or wrong, he is the only one out there with a plan to reduce our dependency on imported oil. We are sending 700 billion dollars a year overseas to countries that don't like us very much. If a plan like his were to be implemented in this country we would be saving money and developing good jobs in this country. Join up, tell your friends, host a meeting and feel good about what we can do for our country. I will get down off my soap box now.Thanks for reading this Brad |
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Post by sandsman1 on Aug 2, 2008 16:00:36 GMT -5
i just signed up i think hes got a great idea when i was on the road i left Kim's house in ms and traveled through Texas and i seen along rt 66 there where fields of wind mills-- if each town like there and here in new Mex with alot of open space took some gov land and used it for this i bet we could cut electric in half from coal in no time that would give us more time to get off of oil -- we wouldn't be polluting our air with a ton of each
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chassroc
Cave Dweller 
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Aug 4, 2008 8:53:59 GMT -5
Although I must applaud Pickens for his plan, I cannot take him seriously after he visciously attacked John Kerry by putting up 3 million dollars to bankroll the Swiftboat Veterens lies and then reneged on his promise to give a million dollars to anyone who could prove the Swiftboat veterens lied. Whena group of veterens who served with Kerry came forward, he reneged and continued to support the lies against a great American hero:
A group of Swift boat veterans sympathetic to Mr. Kerry sent Mr. Pickens a letter last week taking him up on the challenge. In 12 pages, plus a 42-page attachment of military records and other documents, they identified not just one but ten lies in the group’s campaign against Mr. Kerry. They offered to meet with him to provide Mr. Kerry’s journals and videotapes from Vietnam and a copy of his full military record certified by the Navy – a key demand of Mr. Pickens and veterans who believe Mr. Kerry lied about his service to win his military decorations.
Mr. Pickens replied with a one-page letter, thanking the veterans for their research and their service, but politely saying there had been a misunderstanding.
csroc
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cutter
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2008
Posts: 129
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Post by cutter on Aug 4, 2008 13:36:05 GMT -5
Please try to look beyond all of the politics surrounding this very important issue. There are tens of thousands of people signed on trying to make a difference for our country.
Brad
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fanatic
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2007
Posts: 233
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Post by fanatic on Aug 4, 2008 13:41:21 GMT -5
Well spoken cutter. One of the reasons I frequent this forum is because of the lack of political slant. I'd like to see it stay that way as well.
When it comes to politics I visit other forums, but I won't tell you which forums. chassroc would get all upset over it! Just kidding chassroc!!
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Post by docone31 on Aug 4, 2008 18:04:12 GMT -5
I'll bet, no one here know that 80% of the power that goes through our household meter returns to the utility company and is grounded out.
I wonder, if those whizz bang save the world plans are really nothing but a land grab. Social control in the name of ecology.
Can you say eminant domain?
Sure.
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Post by sitnwrap on Aug 4, 2008 18:20:06 GMT -5
Those two words, eminant domain, are nasty. Something to think about. Have to go read the link now but, on that line, I watched some land taken by eminant domain after the family was out, the land just sat. The reason for taking it never materialized. 20 years later and It is still an empty lot.
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Post by texaswoodie on Aug 4, 2008 18:21:04 GMT -5
Although I must applaud Pickens for his plan, I cannot take him seriously after he visciously attacked John Kerry by putting up 3 million dollars to bankroll the Swiftboat Veterens lies and then reneged on his promise to give a million dollars to anyone who could prove the Swiftboat veterens lied. Whena group of veterens who served with Kerry came forward, he reneged and continued to support the lies against a great American hero: A group of Swift boat veterans sympathetic to Mr. Kerry sent Mr. Pickens a letter last week taking him up on the challenge. In 12 pages, plus a 42-page attachment of military records and other documents, they identified not just one but ten lies in the group’s campaign against Mr. Kerry. They offered to meet with him to provide Mr. Kerry’s journals and videotapes from Vietnam and a copy of his full military record certified by the Navy – a key demand of Mr. Pickens and veterans who believe Mr. Kerry lied about his service to win his military decorations. Mr. Pickens replied with a one-page letter, thanking the veterans for their research and their service, but politely saying there had been a misunderstanding. csroc Sorry Chas, but that is a very good reason to take Pickens seriously. ;D Curt |
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Post by docone31 on Aug 4, 2008 19:28:37 GMT -5
I watched them eminant domain while the family was there.
A bunch of families were given a 12hr deadline, either move or pay 10,000$ a day. We are talking oooold people who had lived there for several decades.
They got the land, no one ever found out what happend to the people, and the state did nothing with the land. They changed their minds after the land was grabbed.
If you said anything, all of a sudden you got harassed untill you lost everything. Little things, traffic tickets where nothing happened. Code tickets, your grass was 1mm too long for code, a real big thing here, is dead bugs on your radiator. Each one is expensive.
Social control, the other white meat.
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cutter
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2008
Posts: 129
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Post by cutter on Aug 5, 2008 7:30:24 GMT -5
Wind farms have nothing to do with eminant domain. The land for turbines is leased and puts money in the pockets of farmers and ranchers.
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Post by MrP on Aug 6, 2008 19:37:50 GMT -5
"I'll bet, no one here know that 80% of the power that goes through our household meter returns to the utility company and is grounded out."
docone31 please explain this to me. I don't understand how that can be.........MrP
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Post by docone31 on Aug 7, 2008 7:51:55 GMT -5
With alternating current, AC, it passes both ways. Only a percentage of the power is consumed by the user, but, all is payed for.
It all returns to the main source.
With direct current, DC only the current used passes through the meter.
I had it explained to me by our electritian. I was impressed.
You can make a feedback loop with wiring, but, the utilities won't allow it.
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Post by MrP on Aug 7, 2008 20:42:00 GMT -5
docone31
I have to tell you that I work for a power company and a guarantee you it does not work that way. You only pay for what you use, AC or DC. Sure wish it worked the way you were told, we could make some real money.
I also have to say that wind is not the answer. Wish it was but it isn't. The wind can't be depended on and where the best wind is there in no power grid. Minnesota passed a bill so 20% of our power has to be renewable then they turned down the power grid to transport the power!
We have a wind generator and the numbers make me sick. Most of the time we need it the most, at our peak, it is not generating. Think about it, the hottest day is usually HOT with no wind. If there is a wind a lot of people open there windows and suffer through it. No wind and the air is on, therefor we need more power that day.
Not sure what the answer is but we will have to find something because the cost of all energy is going up. Believe me you will be paying a lot more for your power in the next 5-10 years.
Sorry
MrP
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Post by docone31 on Aug 7, 2008 21:20:59 GMT -5
Oopsie.
Shows ya what happens when you listen to engineers. I guess they saw me coming. Not the first time.
Some of my computer engineer acquaintenances have fed me stuff also.
Foot in mouth time.
I believe we will come up with a solution.
Wind needs to be refined, solar needs refineing, the other processes are being refined.
Sooner or later, we will come up with something that works and works well. Not here today, but, perhaps it is right around the corner.
Meantime, I keep my lights down, like always, and only drive where I need to and make one trip out of two.
We drive in connected loops today. Get everything in one trip, make only right hand turns, or try to plan it that way.
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darrad
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2006
Posts: 1,636
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Post by darrad on Aug 7, 2008 21:35:46 GMT -5
On the subject of power not politics I have to wonder how we powered a ship to Mars and others beyond. Solar? Bussard collectors picking up free hydrogen from space? Nuclear? I have not been able to find out for sure. Any answers out there?
MrP- question. I have a roof that is southern facing. I have been told by 2 solar panel installation companies that I can (with the proper panels) have free electricity and feed the excess back into the grid and that the meters would actually run backwards.
Any truth to that?
Dave.
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cutter
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2008
Posts: 129
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Post by cutter on Aug 8, 2008 9:09:34 GMT -5
My best guess about spaceships is some solar, some nuke and alot of gravity.
About 1200 sq' of roof facing south will power most homes when the sun is shining. You then need batteries for storage when there is no solar production night/cloudy. The biggest problem is the initial cost and the life of the system. In most of the country the cost of grid power is much cheaper than the installation of panels. The pay off is close to 20 years for most and the lifespan for them is about the same.
As for your meter going backwards, I hope that yours can. In NE Kansas we have been fighting with the powers that be to get Zereo Metering for months. Like banging your head on a quartzite boulder. The power companies own the grid and make the rules. We are paying 8 cents and all they are willing to buy back at is 2 cents. This really makes these systems a losing propisition.
This is part of the Pickensplan main platforms. From a grassroots base, force our politicians to get the face of the big boys and remove the layers of restrictions and stumbling blocks that are in the way of making it worth while for alternitive systems to play nice on a national scale. The only way to do this is for us as concerend Americans to get in the faces of our local, county, state and national politicians and tell them that we either mandate change or we will find someone that will. Brad
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Post by akansan on Aug 8, 2008 10:39:22 GMT -5
There are parts of the country where wind makes a whole lot of sense...and Kansas is one of those places. West Texas is another. I don't think a day goes by when the wind isn't blowing here (or there) in some form. The trick is getting that supplied wind energy to where it actually would do some good, and Texas at least is piping the energy back to the larger cities and plans on continuing to do so with their new wind farms.
Brad - I've heard that about solar - that the cost is a neutralizing factor. A few neighbors (out on ranches) in New Mexico were putting in panels and were overestimating on purpose to supply energy back into the grid and create a balance at the electric company for those rare times when the sun isn't shining down there. They had enough clout to actually swing a deal with the electric company that was basically the reduced purchase price for the energy the company would purchase in exchange for what amounted to free electricity when the ranch needed it. It was interesting listening to their side of discussion.
My other outdated information on solar panels was it used to be that the creation of the panels themselves was "enviromentally harmful" because of the amount of work & energy it took to create the panels and because of the chemicals involved. Does anyone know if that is still true?
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Post by MrP on Aug 8, 2008 12:01:18 GMT -5
Stonewizard Cutter has it about right. The payback is not good. they have made great strides forward in the last year or so on the solar panels. The newest panels will produce more power with less sun because it is designed to gather the light better. Also the cost is coming down. It will be an option but will not be one that can be counted on at all times.
Cutter In Minnesota if you can only produce 39kW or less we have to use a Net meter, spins forward from us and backward when you send to us. Over 40kW you are a power producer and are subject to producer rates.
Akansan Feb 26 2008 a sudden wind drop caused a loss of 1,100 MW of power. It happened as the costumer load was going up. They had some real problems because they could not get the backup generators up and producing fast enough. Wind is great when it works but you always have to have reserves spinning in case it goes away...........MrP
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darrad
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2006
Posts: 1,636
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Post by darrad on Aug 8, 2008 20:02:29 GMT -5
MrP, Cutter thanks that was the same conclusion I got to. Alternative energy good but cost prohibitive. As far as wind maybe back up the wind drivin turbines with magnetic power. Just a thought.
Jim, Very true about no friction except for space dust but there is constant gravity in a confined system such as the Sol system. Planets spinning, Meteorite storms spinning through it, Comets so there is constant gravity pull on the craft. It is not large but adjustments have to be made and when there is nothing to "push against" with lets say chemical thrusters, a lot of some kind of fuel I think would be needed. Deep space I believe would be different. I am not a Rocket Scientest so I may be way of base
Dave.
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Post by Cher on Aug 13, 2008 17:55:14 GMT -5
They just put up a bunch of wind turbines here in ne MN. I wish I could put on on my lots here, I get wind 24/7, I could power the whole town.  I read there's this town somewhere out east that will help you pay for a wind turbine if you'll put one on your property. One guy figured in eight years his would be paid for and his electricity free then. That would be so cool!! I signed up, I think it's the right direction to go, far better than the direction we're heading into now. |
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I read there's this town somewhere out east that will help you pay for a wind turbine if you'll put one on your property. One guy figured in eight years his would be paid for and his electricity free then. That would be so cool!! 
