|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 1, 2008 2:56:59 GMT -5
Yup, China Lake Naval Weapons Center, a military installation adjoining Death Valley, covering over a million acres of land. I've submitted a request for clearance in order to hound for Wingate Pass Agate. I don't expect them to grant my request on my first attempt, but I'm determined to keep bugging them 'til they let me do it. In my request, I gave all of my information, told them to run all of my background tests that they want, and said that I would submit to a test, interview, lie detector, or they can go up my keaster with a microscope, whatever it takes. I'll keep y'all posted if/when anything develops.
|
|
|
|
Post by sitnwrap on Nov 1, 2008 14:56:25 GMT -5
Good luck in your quest but don't they test bombs out in the desert and wouldn't that make the rocks "hot"?
|
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on Nov 1, 2008 20:45:05 GMT -5
That sounds like a whole lota fun.
Need someone to help you carry them rocks??
Tony
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 1, 2008 21:02:37 GMT -5
It's not a nuke test site. They develop airplanes and bombs there. A couple thousand people live there, oddly enough, mostly civilians, including families. That's what gives me hope and some degree of confidence that they'll probably let me do it. In fact, from what I gather, they're actually very good stuards of the land there, taking very good care of the wilderness area inside their boundaries, including wildlife management. I've seen what people have done to public access areas of the desert, so I honestly can't say that having that area closed to the general public is a bad thing. If you've ever gone to a recommended rock collecting site and found that some greedy bastards had stripped it clean using power equipment and left nothing but devastation behind, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Still no word back from them yet.
|
|
DeanW
has rocks in the head
Member since December 2007
Posts: 721
|
Post by DeanW on Nov 1, 2008 22:08:50 GMT -5
Good luck! And let us know if 'guests' are allowed to collect with you please!
|
|
|
|
Post by bobby1 on Nov 1, 2008 23:51:34 GMT -5
Does Chapinite come from there, also?
Bob
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 2, 2008 3:27:23 GMT -5
I have no idea what to expect in terms of getting in there. I don't know how strict they are about letting people on their facility. From what I've read, the last time that anyone hounded Wingate Pass was back in the 60s. If they let me in, cool. If I can bring friends, cooler yet. I'm not counting my chickens before they're hatched, though.
Bob, Chapinite was first discovered there. However, it's available in other locations, so I wouldn't bother them for it. There's some Chapinite out by Castle Butte if you want some. I've also heard that there's Myrickite at China Lake, but again, it can also be found elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by Woodyrock on Nov 3, 2008 2:16:35 GMT -5
I sure hope you have good luck getting in. The down side to getting in to China Lake, is this area is the Navy's equivalant to the the Air Forces area 51. Even personel stationed there have no access the the 'back forty' areas outside of the main base. If Wingate Pass is outside of the research areas, you might get in, but since 9 11 access to many military installations just plain stopped.
Woody
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 3, 2008 15:23:07 GMT -5
It's not in the Fort Irwin area, it's in the China Lake section. That's where they do all their fighting sims and testing. It's at the far north end, in an area which is unused ... a buffer.
I GOT A REPLY, saying that my email was forwarded to a person who will be my "point of contact", with the person's name. So, I'll just be patient and wait to hear from my "point of contact". I'm glad that I didn't get a generic reply saying something like "Yeah right ... in your dreams" LOL.
I DID find pics of an "educational" group which was allowed to rockhound out there with a guide for "samples". Hmmm ... odd ... nothing they collected looked particularly "educational" ... all just cool stuff that any rockhound would want, INCLUDING Wingate Pass Agate.
What REALLY sucks, is that I've been trying to find places to rockhound to the east and south of Death Valley, like along hwy 127 north of Baker, and the BLM has made it virtually impossible. They designated a lot of places as protected wilderness, due to plants or animals, but that means you can't go there to hound. They've also closed-off most of the gravel roads to motorized vehicle access, so that you can't get to areas where there may be collectable gemstone. Reading documentation I found on the internet regarding these decisions, they don't even take rockhounding into consideration, at all. The federal government makes a lot of these decisions, often poorly informed, and when state or local governments fight it, they lose.
The "funny" part of it is, most rockhounds are generally nature-loving people who probably care more about the environment than the politicians. IMO, the BLM should offer a Rockhounding License, which entitles you to hound in all areas which will not be negatively impacted by casual rockhounding. They could make a special map which shows the licensee the specific areas where they cannot hound, and provide information regarding special areas where hounding can be done, but special care must be taken so-as not to disturb specific plants or wildlife. This license would also permit the usage of some "no motorized vehicle" roads (also marked on the map), solely for the purpose of rockhounding. By selling weekly, monthly, yearly, and lifetime licenses, they'd generate income to help with REAL desert-related environmental issues. I know, I know ... why should we have to pay to rockhound? Well, would you rather pay a modest fee or would you rather see the government keep taking our hobby away from us? It's the kids playing with their 4WD trucks, dirt bikes, and quads that have caused almost all of these actions to be taken. Rockhounds shouldn't have to suffer their consequences.
|
|
|
|
Post by Woodyrock on Nov 4, 2008 2:00:06 GMT -5
You certainly got good news with the POC, I wish you well. I was at CL about four years ago, and even with the security clearances I had, I was not allowed to leave the main station area, which really sucked.Woody
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 4, 2008 3:41:25 GMT -5
I haven't heard back from them yet, so I'm still not counting my chickens. Having a "point of contact" seems like a good thing, at least a start.
|
|
UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
|
Post by UtahRockHound on Nov 4, 2008 9:46:45 GMT -5
The "funny" part of it is, most rockhounds are generally nature-loving people who probably care more about the environment than the politicians. IMO, the BLM should offer a Rockhounding License, which entitles you to hound in all areas which will not be negatively impacted by casual rockhounding. They could make a special map which shows the licensee the specific areas where they cannot hound, and provide information regarding special areas where hounding can be done, but special care must be taken so-as not to disturb specific plants or wildlife. This license would also permit the usage of some "no motorized vehicle" roads (also marked on the map), solely for the purpose of rockhounding. By selling weekly, monthly, yearly, and lifetime licenses, they'd generate income to help with REAL desert-related environmental issues. I know, I know ... why should we have to pay to rockhound? Well, would you rather pay a modest fee or would you rather see the government keep taking our hobby away from us? It's the kids playing with their 4WD trucks, dirt bikes, and quads that have caused almost all of these actions to be taken. Rockhounds shouldn't have to suffer their consequences. I agree. I have spent a lifetime in the backwoods so to speak. I pick up others trash, and pack it out. By no means am I close to a Tree Hugger, but I believe strongly in full use without destruction of the land. Recently I tried to file a claim on some Honey Onyx. It is an old claim that goes back to the early 1900's, and has sat abandoned for the last 20 years. The BLM Geologist was well aware of the claim, but was very honest in my lost cause. The Tree Huggers pushed through a law that says you have to put up a fee to reclaim the land when you file. For me this amounted to $6,000.00 for a claim 300ft X 1500ft along the deposit. Not to mention this is up front, and it could take as long as a year to acquire. They no longer allow you to just claim it. It is now a salable mineral and you have to buy it by the ton. Yea right, take me a week to hammer and chiesel out a ton of rock. I wanted to do it right, and legal, but it is out of my reach. I hated to do it this way, but I just went out on a Sunday, and picked up a few stones to play with, then wrote it off my list. |
|
1rockhound
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 286
|
Post by 1rockhound on Nov 5, 2008 12:22:24 GMT -5
File the claim under a different mineral that is on the location. As you have full mineral rights to the claim. Also if you file the claim as casual use you can get around the bond. Casual use is defined by BLM as: Casual use involves minor activity with hand tools, no explosives, and no mechanized earth moving equipment.
|
|
UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
|
Post by UtahRockHound on Nov 5, 2008 19:06:58 GMT -5
I did find a old record in the archives where someone had filed a Placer claim for gold on it at one time. I thought about it, but decided to be upfront with them. My first mistake it turned out. The BLM Geologist knew right off what claim I was talking about.
I did explain that I would be working it by had without aid of machinery or explosives. It did no good. It seem the Tree Huggers had just recently got the law changed, and this was the first year it was enforced.
As far as I am concerned, they are forcing out hand. Maybe a Tea Party like in Boston Harbor is in order. (did I say that)
|
|
UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
|
Post by UtahRockHound on Nov 5, 2008 19:11:25 GMT -5
Sorry, did not want to HiJack the topic.
Back to what is at hand. It would be great if you could get permission. Here in Utah we have a Army Base called Tooela Army Depot. This is where they are destroying all the country's Chemical Warfare Weapons. I highly doubt they would ever grant permission here, but if they do in China Lake, It would be great to try it here. My son Worked a Kennecott Copper Mine which borders the army base, and he brought me some great samples I would love to get my hands on more.
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 5, 2008 21:35:28 GMT -5
You can mine that Honey Onyx without a claim, taking a backpack full per day, legally. Now, according to law, you're not supposed to sell anything that you collect on BLM land without a claim, but I've yet to ever hear of that law being enforced.
Whether the Honey Onyx is viable to mine on an ongoing basis is a matter of how difficult it is to mine, how far the mine is from your house, how difficult it is to access and transport, how much you can get per pound, and whether you can sell as much as you can mine. For instance, if it's a few miles from your house, you can drive your truck right up to the mine, you can easily identify and remove the material in a short amount of time, and then you can easily sell it at will at a total price of far more than the time, effort, and expenses you've put into it, then you have a great thing going for you. If some of the variables aren't that favorable, then you have to weigh-out the pros and cons, and most importantly, see what the bottom line looks like once the dust settles. Making money at gemstone isn't easy.
|
|
UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
|
Post by UtahRockHound on Nov 5, 2008 23:52:27 GMT -5
It does make some interesting rock. I have cut a bit of it just to test it. The BLM Geologist says it is carbonate based, and not quartz, so the market for it I guess is not there. Not strong enough for tile or counter. I have worked it enough to know it takes a fare shine. More important, it is some really good looking rock.
If people are interested, I can pin point it on Google Earth. The vain is visible enough you can see it from Satellite. You can drive to within 30 feet of the vain. Only about a fifth of the vain has been exposed for just what you can see on the surface. Really do not know how deep it runs. The Vain is vertical. It could run a hundred feet deep or more. No way of knowing without drilling it.
Every week day, I drive to within two miles of it on my way to work. The road to it is paved right up until the last half mile. A car could make it as long as the road is dry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Nov 6, 2008 4:12:34 GMT -5
The BLM geologist probably hasn't given the material much thought since it's not commercially viable and is seldom used for lapidary work. I read-up on Honey Onyx, and the main drawback to the material is that it's soft (for lapidary gemstone). Although you were able to work it and get some shine, it's still probably impractical for jewelry due it's lack of durability, and this issue would be multiplied if some bands are softer than others. But that didn't keep me from looking deeper... I looked at 30 pages of Honey Onyx pics through a Google search. Most of it is plain and boring, BUT, when it's pretty, it's REAL pretty. Here's what I'm talking about ...     In those pics, I see various patterns that remind me of agate, charoite, and rhodochrosite. If your stuff resembles these pics, or maybe different but just as remarkably beautiful, then it's just a matter of making it hard and durable enough for use in jewelry. If your stuff is that pretty, then my recommendation would be that you cherry pick the chunks, cut them into slabs, then cherry pick the slabs and stabilize them. Stabilized "best of the best" slabs just might fetch some good money from lapidary pros who see it as something fresh and unusual for their artwork. Since the rough is soft, it should cut pretty quickly and easily. Also, stabilizing doesn't have to be the big hassle and expense that some make it out to be. Here's the simple process, as posted by deedolce: Take a jar with a lid; add one pint of acetone. To this, add the complete contents of both the resin and the hardener tubes of epoxy glue, mixing well. Add well-dried stones, cover the jar, and let remain for at least four days. Remove stones and allow a week for them to dry.This method DOES work, and it works very well. Whatever rough and slabs don't cut-the-mustard when you cherry pick, auction off flat raters on eBay. Just make sure that you tell the Mohs scale hardness so that the buyers are aware. Just my $.02 Can you post some pics??? |
|
UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
|
Post by UtahRockHound on Nov 6, 2008 10:17:54 GMT -5
Your $.02 is worth much more. Now you have me thinking, the marbles are starting to rattle. I think I will try to stabilize some. I have some slabs cut, plus an egg I can try it on.
I turned some on my lathe, and for the most part it worked. My Lathe is home made and needs a couple of additions to make it work right, but for the most part it turned out OK, it is how I made the egg.
What I have samples of is not as good looking as what you show above. It is more banded, but still has that eye candy. I will post some pics when I get home tonight.
|
|
Wolfden
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2007
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by Wolfden on Nov 9, 2008 8:58:33 GMT -5
Could you post some pictures of your lathe ? I very interested in seeing how it's setup
Thanks
Dennis
|
|
