1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 10, 2008 11:56:05 GMT -5
I took a load out of the rotary and put it in the Lot-O last night and had a tough time getting the right amount of water in. Seems like there's a pretty fine line between not enough water and too much. Tom's idea of using a pinch of Dreft seems to widen the window a bit, but it's still pretty narrow. I have about a cupful of anionic polymer powder from my work in industrial waste-water treatment -- stuff we no longer use at the shop. Just a small pinch of it mixed into a cup of water produces some really slimy stuff with the consistency of runny snot and a very high surface tension.
After I finally got the right amount of water in the batch I added a half teaspoon of polymer, then after a few minutes I started adding water a quarter teaspoon at a time until I'd added 2 teaspoons. Without the polymer that's enough water to stall the rolling action (at least with this load -- it probably has too many large rocks in it), but with the polymer it kept a creamy consistency and kept right on rolling. By this morning it had thickened and slowed as it normally would, so I added another quarter teaspoon of polymer and a teaspoon of water to get it rolling again. I probably should have just added the water without any additional polymer. I'll keep playing with this stuff and see where it leads. If it widens the range of permissible water in a load even half as much as I suspect it does, I might be on to something -- as long as it doesn't screw-up the grinding action.
In the right concentration the polymer should help keep everything in suspension and provide a bit of lubricity without adding any significant viscosity like the various thickening agents do (sugar, corn syrup, etc.). It's used as a coagulant in treating oily industrial waste-water, and helps in getting all of the oil, grease, and suspended solids to gel together and float to the top of the tank, leaving clear water with a layer of oily goop on top of it. The goop gets skimmed off and is eventually shipped out in a tanker truck, and the clear water is drained to the municipal sewerage system. The coagulant action is pH dependent (about 8.2 to 9.5 for this particular polymer), so I may end up having to monitor pH if the results in the tumbler are inconsistent. The high surface tension and lubricity are the qualities I'm seeking from the polymer (or so I think), and those are NOT pH dependent.
Mark
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Post by johnjsgems on Nov 10, 2008 21:01:48 GMT -5
I've never used a Lot-O but in general damp works in vibes. Any water splashing is way too much and grit settles to the bottom wearing grooves in the bowl. The rock rotates above the grit. Many rinse the rocks and put them in the tumbler. If the rocks rotate with the water from rinsing ok. If not add a spritz with a sprayer at a time (or drops) until a good rotation is achieved. As a slurry forms add the same way until initial action returns.
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Post by puppie96 on Nov 11, 2008 3:09:13 GMT -5
I'd say don't overthink it...it will quickly become obvious what works for you. I start with the rocks wet (if they are dry, then I put water in the unit and swish it around with the rocks and then drain it out.) Then I put the barrels in and turn it on and add the tablespoon of coarse grit while it is running. Then I put a little water inside the cap and drain it in, cap it up and leave it. When I have a chance hopefully in not more than a few hours, I check it and if there's already sticky mud forming, I add some more water to loosen it up. The danger, for me, is to start it with very little water and then go to work. In the coarse grind, that generally turns out to be not enough water and by the time I'm back at the end of the day they are too muddy and stuck, often. Better to err on the side of a bit too much water. The directions tell you to use 2 tbsps of 120/220 when you start but I just use one. Nothing seemed to be gained by using two. If I'm able to check it 12 hours or so later then sometimes I add another tablespoon or so more and let it run until the next day, always keeping an eye on the water. Sometimes when I can't get time to wash it out for a couple of days I just keep putting in water, and while there isn't going to be much grinding action, it does start the surfaces smoothing out and getting a polish already and doesn't hurt anything. Before I wash it out I put in some soap, borax, and a bunch of water and leave it go for a few minutes to a half hour, the rocks clean themselves up nicely that way and make it easy to hose out. I hope this is helpful.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Nov 11, 2008 3:44:35 GMT -5
Hi Mark,
I have no problem at all
I just fill up with water then put in the rocks tip the water out fill up again and tip it all out again add aTeaspoon soap flakes and one of borax then the grit
And as Puppie66 above says just add water as nessary
another tip I can give you is
if the mixture is a dull grey it needs a drop of water (not much only a spray or two ) so it becomes shiney This is one little obsivation I have made .
As I have said befor to much water = a rock washing machine .
I can send you Conrocks (Toms)" gloss Rock polishing Guide "if you want just email me. john@matco.me.uk
Jack
Yorkshire UK
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 11, 2008 13:16:47 GMT -5
The trial with the polymer was a bust. It makes the mixture do funny things once a good bit of slurry is formed.
You must be older than I am, Jack. ;D
You sent me the polishing guide a couple of weeks ago.
A teaspoon of soap? I thought you were using closer to 1/8 teaspoon (about the volume of a pencil eraser).
Thanks,
Mark
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Nov 11, 2008 13:36:24 GMT -5
As an owner of a Thumler's UV-18, I'm surprised at how fast the Lot-O dries out. I check my vibe every 12 hours and usually end up adding a couple of tablespoons of water. When the UV-18 needs water the action just slows down; it doesn't gum up (but then, I've never run it really low on water). Based on this thread and other Lot-O threads, I think the Thumler's may have a tighter lid seal. Or it could be that the Lot-O is more aggressive and the water is being soaked up by the ground rock.
It's good information to have as I have one on my wish list so that I can do smaller loads.
Chuck
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Post by puppie96 on Nov 12, 2008 13:08:22 GMT -5
As someone once said in the past, there may also be differences in the water needs depending on environmental conditions. I'd never thought about it, but since mine's in the basement laundry room near the furnace, the air is very dry down there especially during the winter months.
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 12, 2008 19:10:57 GMT -5
When you first start a load, fill with rocks then with water. Hold your hand across the top and drain all the water out. All you want is wet rocks, nothing more. Add ONE drop of non chlorine dishwashing soap. When it dries out spray the rocks until they are wet, no more. Depending on conditions, this could be one to five sprays.
The Lott-O top sucks! I threw mine away. I take a piece of plastic wrap and double it, put it across the top and secure it with a rubber band. No water can get out and all you will loose is to the rock slurry drying it out.
Curt
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Nov 13, 2008 4:36:20 GMT -5
Hi Puppie
I Think you hit the nail on the head
I have my vibe ouside in a Green house and during summer I had to top up regularly last year (Hotter dryer summer) this year we had a lousey wet summer and I didnt have to top up much
I hadnt thought much about it till you mentioned the dry air laundry room !!
Jack Yorkshire UK
PS
I have a bungee cord holding the lid tight and NO hole in the lid as the manufacture states, J
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Nov 13, 2008 4:47:58 GMT -5
Mark 1,
I use a small flat Tea spoon soaf flakes I guess it depends on the Eraser size !!!
Any thing to get the grit to stick and reduce surface tention.
jack
yorkshire UK
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 13, 2008 11:30:47 GMT -5
Thanks Jack. I put a load in 500 grit this morning and added about a half teaspoon before draining off the excess water. That way the rocks are lubricated before I even plug in the motor. Seemed to work well. Next time I'll go with a full teaspoon.
Mark
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 13, 2008 11:33:49 GMT -5
Mark 1, I use a small flat Tea spoon soaf flakes I guess it depends on the Eraser size !!! jack yorkshire UK My bad. I was thinking in terms of the eraser on the end of a pencil. Then again, if you have a big enough pencil... Mark |
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Nov 14, 2008 4:05:09 GMT -5
Mark
I made a lot of mistakes at school & used to have to rub out a lot !! I had a big eraser !!!!!!
Tip the water out first,
START the motor,(keep running) adding soap flakes run 1/2 min before adding grit you will see the rocks get coated as you add grit
(You might have to sheild the air flow from the fan to stop grit blowing away as you add grit to the rocks)
Hope this helps ?
Jack
Yorkshire uk
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 14, 2008 11:10:50 GMT -5
...Hope this helps ? Jack Yorkshire uk Indeed. Thanks Jack, mark |
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