1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 21, 2008 23:46:06 GMT -5
When I got home from work tonight and checked the load that's in the vibe it was 32 degrees F. in my attached garage and the vibe was rolling a bit sluggishly. I've got a load that's mostly small ceramic media running in my polish barrel with 2000 grit AO to smooth off the plumber's putty I just put in the little cavity at the bottom of the barrel to keep stuff from getting stuck in there (Lot-O-Tumbler). I've run my rotaries all winter long in the past with no difficulties. Will a vibe tolerate low temps as well as a rotary?
Thanks,
Mark
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Post by connrock on Nov 22, 2008 13:21:20 GMT -5
I don't really know but would guess as long as you make sure the sludge doesn't get too thick it won't freeze.
Put in a few drops of RV anti-freeze???
connrock
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 22, 2008 13:51:59 GMT -5
I put a 60 watt incandescent bulb about 6" away from it and it's running "normally" now'. I suspect that the differences I'm seeing are related to the cold temps stiffening the rubber barrel. I need to pick up a 15 0r 20 watt bulb, as the 60 is overkill.
I finally glued the 40 pound concrete block that the Lot-O is mounted on to the garage floor with plumber's putty. It was resting on 2 bars of lead solder, and that worked fine in warmer temps, but as it got colder I couldn't stop the bars from chattering.
Mark
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RocknCritter
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 489
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Post by RocknCritter on Nov 22, 2008 16:27:09 GMT -5
Just a little report from New Siberia. I got my Lot-O-Shake-and-Bake Tumbler about a month ago. It's been down to around 0 degrees F almost every morning for several weeks now. With the cement floor, the garage is probably several degrees colder. So far - no problems at all. I just can't wait until it gets down to -30 or -40 with a little breeze. Now that will be a test  I figure when the rocks start freezing to my finger tips, it might be a little too cold. |
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navi
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 229
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Post by navi on Nov 22, 2008 23:09:17 GMT -5
i was just wondering the same thing. it's got below 32 the last few nights. haven't seen any problem. mine's in the garage, off the ground on a wood bench.
does the natural friction of the rocks tumbling keep things warmer than the freezing point? would adding salt help, since salt water can get much colder than 32 w/o freezing?
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 23, 2008 11:10:45 GMT -5
does the natural friction of the rocks tumbling keep things warmer than the freezing point? That's pretty much the case. Water kept in motion can stay liquid a few degrees below its normal freezing point, but I think the bigger factor here is heat gained from friction -- just as you suggest -- and heat from the tumbler's motor. I've heard of folks adding RV anti-freeze as Tom suggested. As for concrete floors: For a good part of of the cold season a concrete floor will help keep an unheated garage a few degrees warmer than ambient temps by conducting heat from the ground to the air in the garage. Late in the cool season and for most of the warm season it moderates temps the other way by conducting heat from the air to the ground. Mark |
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Nov 23, 2008 17:38:36 GMT -5
Make a box from Styrofoam insulation and cover the whole tumbler keeping the heat from the motor inside to help heat the barrel. A piece under the tumbler will further help hold in any heat available (it will help with belt life too). Make sure the bearings are lubricated with a lighter weight oil in these cold temps too. What we do for the sake of the hobby!  Dr Joe . |
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 23, 2008 22:03:43 GMT -5
Make sense. Thanks Joe.
Mark
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navi
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 229
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Post by navi on Nov 23, 2008 23:12:58 GMT -5
.............or just bring it inside!!! :-p
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Nov 27, 2008 12:24:06 GMT -5
During the winter I cover my vibe tumblers with large inverted storage totes. The heat from the motor keeps them nice a toasty. I don't cover them unless it's going to get down to 10-20 F or lower because they would overheat. For my rotary tumbler I staple cardboard on the shelf it's on and enclose it to capture the heat from the motor...
Rick
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tomcloss
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 158
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Post by tomcloss on Dec 5, 2008 0:47:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure where but I read some where that the tumblers should be ran above 43° F. (I think it was in one of my tumbler manuals.) Living in MI and the cold winters don't stop me from tumbling. I built a 3'x3' box which I keep a small electric heater with a thermostat. This keeps the box around 45°. This seems to work well. A buddy of mine thinks with the insulation I added to the box a light bulb would be enough heat. Problem with that is the light would never turn off.
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Dec 5, 2008 12:40:31 GMT -5
Thanks Tom,
Right now I've got my model B and a pair of 3# CE's doing rough grind snuggled together next to a 40 watt light bulb, but if I'm going to keep going all winter I suspect your idea of putting 'em in a box is the way to go. Once I get enough material out of rough to start up the vibe again, I'll cover it with a cheap styrofoam cooler turned upside-down.
The current 10-day forecast is calling for lows in the teens for 5 of the next 10 days, with all but 2 of the remaining 5 days in the low 20's.
Maybe I should just retire and move to Florida. ;D
Mark
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Dec 6, 2008 9:31:59 GMT -5
We had rain, then heavy frost here 2 nights ago! Now it's gonna be mid 70's... Try to keep moisture straight in that mess ;D
Make sure you move farther south than me!
Dr Joe
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fisherman510
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2008
Posts: 113
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Post by fisherman510 on Dec 6, 2008 9:36:42 GMT -5
We have that right here in Louisiana. Last three days have ranged from mid 20's to upper 70's. Not god for man nor beast.
Bob
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Dec 6, 2008 22:25:35 GMT -5
Well, I did the styrofoam cooler thing. With only a small modification the cooler fits snugly over the ends of the 40 pound cement block that the Lot-O is mounted on, and there's about a 1/2 inch gap on the sides which permits a bit of air flow. I figured that'd be enough to keep things from getting out of hand. I was wrong.
I stuck the outdoor bulb of an indoor/outdoor thermometer in the bottom of the cooler (I guess it's the top now, since the cooler is upside-down), set it in place, and let 'er rip. The temperature in the garage this afternoon was about 36 degrees F., and when I went out to check the load after about 2 hours of running the temperature under the cooler was 100 degrees! The rocks looked a bit dull and were no longer turning over so I spritzed 'em a few times, figuring they'd dried out in spite of the plastic wrap that I cover the top with before putting on the lid. Wrong again! Turns out that the slurry got so thin at that temperature that it all dropped to the bottom. I drained off the water and slurry, added another teaspoon of 120/220, drilled a couple of 3/4" holes in the bottom of the cooler, and fired it up again. It's now running at a cozy 76 degrees.
I think this is going to work!
Mark
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Dec 7, 2008 11:20:45 GMT -5
This morning it was 28 degrees in the garage and 94 degrees under the cooler -- still too warm -- and the load was almost too dry to turn over. I used a sharp knife and enlarged the holes a little while ago. I'll give it at least 2 hours to stabilize and I'll check it again.
I'd like to see no more than a 30 degree differential, and even that is a bit much. A cardboard box might be a better solution here. Since the styrofoam cooler requires constant ventilation to keep things from getting too warm, I'm seeing a very low relative humidity, which makes the load dry out faster. A thin cardboard box completely covering the tumbler and the block it's mounted on might lose heat fast enough without ventilation. This would result in a very high relative humidity under the box, slowing down the evaporation from the load, but it might also result in condensation forming...
Of course, the alternative is to stay with the cooler in its current configuration and have my wife get up in the middle of the night to spritz the load.
(Mark flees in terror as his wife bears down on him wielding a sharp pair of knitting needles...)
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Rogue Trader
freely admits to licking rocks
"Don't cry because you are leaving, smile because you were there."
Member since December 2008
Posts: 839
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Post by Rogue Trader on Dec 7, 2008 12:11:08 GMT -5
It's only a suggestion, and I don't know how much room you have under the cooler, but, could you not place a tumbler of water under the cooler with the machine?
This would aid in regulating the humidity and assist it the heat reduction and circulation me thinks.
(The heat being absorbed by the water and tumbler and being transferred / dissipated through the bottom of the tumbler in contact with the colder surface it is stood on.)
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Dec 7, 2008 14:14:11 GMT -5
That's a good thought, but there's not enough room. I have thought of hanging something like a pie pan inside from the top, but that might get a bit sloppy unless I'm real careful when I remove the cooler. I guess I could fabricate a stand from 1/8" steel wire and set a pan on it right above the tumbler.
As of 10 minutes ago I've got the differential down to 24 degrees with the holes that I cut in the cooler. Even in sub-zero weather the garage seldom gets colder than about 15 degrees F. (it's an attached garage), so 24 degrees should be enough rise. The differential will shrink a bit as the ambient temps go down, so I'll keep an eye on it. I'm hoping the evaporation problem will go away with the lower differential. We'll soon see. I'd hate for the little woman to have to get up in the middle of the night to spritz the load. She'd likely put her cold feet against me when she climbs back into the bed, and we can't have that! ;D
Thanks,
Mark
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Rogue Trader
freely admits to licking rocks
"Don't cry because you are leaving, smile because you were there."
Member since December 2008
Posts: 839
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Post by Rogue Trader on Dec 7, 2008 14:31:47 GMT -5
How permanent is this? It depends if you want to spend a little money on refining it or not. For instance, you could always install a little cheap thermo couple and a fan. The thermo couple will start the fan when a set temperature is reached and shut it off when a lower temperature is reached. Similar to the fan / heat exchanger running in a laptop. Here is a switcher unit, and a fan, both running on a 12v battery. Listed in UK, but you are sure to find one over there. www.circuit-innovations.co.uk/thermsw.htmlwww.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=8693&source=googlepsTotal cost I'm sure will be less than $20.00 |
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Dec 8, 2008 0:35:48 GMT -5
If I need more cooling I'll just cut a bigger hole, then cover it if the ambient temps drop too much. Right now the larger issue is evaporation, but I think that will take care of itself once I get the temp a bit lower under the cooler.
Mark
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I figure when the rocks start freezing to my finger tips, it might be a little too cold.
