Rogue Trader
freely admits to licking rocks
"Don't cry because you are leaving, smile because you were there."
Member since December 2008
Posts: 839
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Post by Rogue Trader on Dec 7, 2008 2:51:54 GMT -5
... I've learnt a lot. I'm a very fast learner.
It's a very informative forum, full of usefull facts, figures, information and hints and tips.
A very useful place for both the novice and experianced alike.
Unfortunately it appears that (using a metaphor) when making comments the tide only flows one way.
Opinions seem to be frowned upon.
I posted a comment on a thread relating to someones wrapping. Not a NEGATIVE comment by any long stretch to the word. It was an opinion - My personal opinion.
OPINION - Definition of: An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
Since, I have removed my comments from said thread, merely because it seemed to upset the OP. It was not my intention to cause concern or upset to the OP and for that I apologise.
This is a worldwide forum, and being so there are going to be differences of opinions.
All posts are open to comments and opinions. Be they praise, criticism and/or otherwise.
To all memebers of the forum - I will be more careful of what I post on here from now on. Should my opinions differ from the majority of the members (or posters) on any particular thread, then I shall remain silent. I will not make comment on any threads which are posted with an intent of gaining an opinion.
To the7 members that have since sent me personal messages about my opinion expressed in a thread, I thank you for your comments. They have been taken on board, but I must point out (in the order that their comments suggested):
1. I WILL NOT BE LEAVING THE BOARD 2. I WILL NOT STOP POSTING 3. I WILL NOT FIND A FORUM IN MY OWN COUNTRY AND POST ON THERE 4. I WILL NOT (hopefully in the near future, well I HOPE NOT anyway) F O and DIE.
Otherwise, as a closer to this post, I would like to say thank you all for making it a friendly (sic) place to visit and join. A place to look, listen and learn.
I live in a democratic society, I have served my country (along side yours) for the right to freedom of speech and action. I will be using those rights.
LIVE WITTH IT!!
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WyckedWyre
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2007
Posts: 1,391
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Post by WyckedWyre on Dec 7, 2008 8:43:46 GMT -5
Wow, did that really happen?
:-/S
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Post by texaswoodie on Dec 7, 2008 8:44:10 GMT -5
I don't know what you're comment was, so this isn't directed at your comment. Just a little friendly advise. When in Rome do as the Romans do. If you want to get along with the people here, do as they do. Makes life a little easier.
Most people put their work up to be admired and receive compliments. If they were not proud of their work, they wouldn't put it up for public view. The cabs I put up for view are lacking in artistic value and are not perfect, but the kind folks on this board compliment them anyway. If this were not the case, I would have quit a long time ago.
Personally I do not mind constructive criticism, no way I'm going to learn if I don't know what's wrong with what I'm doing. But no one likes smart ass or hateful remarks ( again I don't know what your comment was).
As far as people sending you hate messages, if they did, that is totally WRONG. A person I considered a good friend was run completely off this board and several others by the same people doing this. It ticks me off to no end.
Just some thoughts.
Curt
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MidNight~Rocksi3
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2008
Posts: 1,716
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Post by MidNight~Rocksi3 on Dec 7, 2008 10:30:35 GMT -5
Sup Rough! I feel bad about what happened.. I know exactally whatchya talking about.. But the flow shouldn't always go one way.. Opinions are wanted and asked for.. I don't know who sent you the personal messages , and that used to happen to me as well .. I'm still a newbie myself.. But I tend to cause enough ripples and waves and splashes and holy shyt I've even caused major chaos at one time.. lol.. all over my opinion.. lol.. I love diversity.. it makes this world fun.. I don't however enjoy the negetive diversity.. there's a good way to go about opinions.. not everyone likes the same thing.. and that should be accepted, as well.. but there is a fine line between being mean.. and being nice about certain things.... I'm so glad you got the gonzo's to stay.. that makes me happy that you will stay and keep posting.. but as I was told early on and It still rings in my head when I wanna go off and say something very negetive.. this is our playground.. we should play nice.. and if you wanna throw rocks at people.. expect a few to be thrown back.. otherwise.. just go kick rocks.. (not this rocks but well you know)..
I sure hope I didn't offended you .. wasn't my intent.. was only trying to help brush off my homegirl, cuz I could tell that musta hurt.. anyways.. I'm glad you're staying.. and sure hope they don't start ganging up on me next.. they seem to run in packs here.. lol.. jks.. but I got nothing against you K? just so ya know!
*smiles*
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adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,777
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Post by adrian65 on Dec 7, 2008 10:32:42 GMT -5
Quote: "1. I WILL NOT BE LEAVING THE BOARD 2. I WILL NOT STOP POSTING 3. I WILL NOT FIND A FORUM IN MY OWN COUNTRY AND POST ON THERE 4. I WILL NOT (hopefully in the near future, well I HOPE NOT anyway) F O and DIE."1. You do not have to leave the board; 2. Of course you don't have to stop posting; 3. You already found a forum in your country and already post there: this board is created by a country-fellow of yours (Mark) and then became an international board; 4. And, above of all, you will live. But to make your living more pleasant in this place, remember it's a tradition here: the one who posts something and wants the crude opinion of the members is usually asking the other members to do so. It happens from time to time, when a member wants to improve his/her style or creates something new or whatever. Otherwise, people usually comment only if they like the item, or if they think they can improve the work of that person by their comment. We all know there are millions of persons in this world that wouldn't give 2 cents for our work or for any of our rocks, but here on the board we all love rocks and rock related work, no matter that work is hiding the rocks more or less. I think the steepness of your reply was the thing that annoyed some people, but it still was a civilized comment and I think it was wrong to delete it, maybe people who didn't read it think now it was rude or such. By any means your reply did not deserve such "wishes" as it seems you received in those PM's. Well, this was the long answer. The short answer was told so well by Curt: "When in Rome do as the Romans" Adrian
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Post by Bejewelme on Dec 8, 2008 20:36:15 GMT -5
Well I don't know what happened here, damn I go away and miss something exciting. But as a new person on here myself I would hate to think you said something to offend one of the nice members on here. People are more than the rocks, they put a great deal of time, money and effort into their hobby. They are passionate about what they do, and they are kind to one another. The outpouring of generosity shown to me, overwhelms me.
I am new, I have made less than 15 cabs and mine really suck, I was very ready to give up, but the positive criticisms are what have helped me plug along, and keep trying. I am looking for experienced people to give me their advice, but they say it in a way that is encouraging. Maybe not everything appeals to you, just skip over those items. But pretty much this is an informative website, and I see things all the time that I think I don't like, and then I see it another way and love it. Like Petrified wood, I was known as the "wood hater", but Adrian and Curt changed my mind on that too. Heck TonyW even convinced me to cut my long nails off.
I have a mouth that gets me in trouble a lot, I say what is on my mind, but this is a place of friendship and sharing, and not a place to be nasty or unkind. These people have become friends, some of them quite dear, we talk about more than rocks,we talk about God, divorce, kids, sex, football, and day to day life all kinds of subjects. This is the place I come to escape my hectic career, and get a laugh and and an education.
So maybe just a little thought before you write, or better yet:
If you don't have something nice to write, don't write it at all.
I have to give you credit for offering an apology/explanation, that says a lot about a person.
Amber
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Tigger
freely admits to licking rocks
The Wonderful Thing About Tiggers is I'm the Only One!
Member since January 2008
Posts: 896
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Post by Tigger on Dec 9, 2008 11:48:00 GMT -5
This board is a huge family. Families don't always agree. The same with cultures. What you may say, may mean something else to me. Doesn't mean you were being rude or mean. I saw the post you are referring about. I didn't think it was mean or rude, just your opinon. Everyone has one. This one is mine. The 7 members who pm'ed you are out of line. They should keep those kind of comments to themselves because they are rude & mean. If the person who posted they're work was offended or questioned what you meant, then they should have pm.ed you and work it out between the 2 of you. This site occassionaly has to many sheriffs and not enough common sense. JMO As said earlier, if you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything. This goes for me and everyone else. It's just common courtesy.
Tonja
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Post by Tonyterner on Dec 15, 2008 11:37:49 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with opinions and people's rarely agree whether they are close family or as spread out as this board. I have heard some of what went on and I am appalled that some members sent you such heinous emails just for giving your opinion. I had a similar response to that piece as you did but did not post to the thread. However, if I had and had received an email telling me to F O and die for such a mild comment as yours I would not of have been as gracious as you have been. You have done a great job of handling some VERY poor actions by members here. Anyone remember the t-shirts and bumper stickers from the 70's that said "Mean people suck"? Apparently that still applies.
P.S. It is obvious that there are some pretty uninformed members here that don't realize that this board is owned by one of YOUR countrymen.
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Post by Bikerrandy on Dec 15, 2008 14:18:50 GMT -5
Amber said it best, and I feel the same way.... it's the positive criticism that helps us along. This goes for not only me, but everyone here I'm sure. Everything that I do I learned here, and positive criticism is what makes me not give up. Also, those quotes from your PM's.... I'm not sure what to say about those. It's not what we're about, that's for sure. Just hang in there, even a biker can blend in if he stays long enough. ;D
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Post by Woodyrock on Dec 31, 2008 14:45:42 GMT -5
Rogue: I did not read the post you deleted that caused this discussion, and grief. Having been educated in both the Commonwealth, and the US of A, I have often been misunderstood, and not understood what was meant due to the slight difference in our common 'English' tongue. It is sad that people exist that can not deal with these slight differences even within our own countries let alone crossing a border. Like a lot of people, my mouth has an uncanny ability to get me in trouble even though I try to control it, and that is without the cultural differences. I certainly hope that you will continue on with this forum. To me, one of the greatest things bringing people together is the internet with its ability to cross boundaries. Woody
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Post by sandsman1 on Dec 31, 2008 22:21:28 GMT -5
i dont think i seen any of this but if i did it couldnt have been that bad -- and as iv said to many people here dont ever let anyone run you off and im sure we will all be friends in the end -- sometimes we say stuff over here that dont translate well on your side of the pond and back this way also maybe thats what happend here ,, hey you call your sausage bangers and we call our ghetto gang members bangers and also you just cant tell somtime what a person is trying to say with just typin -- welcome to the family Rogue -- im italian and iv seen fights break out at family dinners at least somebody gettin hit in the head wit a roll hahaha
and as far as opinions go if we all thought the same we would all be robots haha
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2009 11:55:05 GMT -5
I value opinions even when they go against my own, plain and simple. Ive never understood how it is that some members here can get away with saying nearly ANYTHING but others get jumped immediately just for saying something different than the masses?
I remember reading a post by an experienced cabber who said he took his cabs to a jeweler to see if they wanted to purchase them. The jeweler said "THESE ARE CRAP". He was a little put off by the comment but rather than be offended he asked the jeweler to offer some advice on what kind of cabs he was looking for. This person then went home and worked his butt off to perfect his cabs. If he would have been told by everyone his cabs were great, he would have never been motivated to improve his skills and would probably still be churning out low quality cabs.
On forums in general, its common to see people posting their work but then getting offended when all comments dont point in the same direction. Personally, I DONT want praise for my work if it isnt truly good. Dont spare my feelings and say "good job Shannon" if you are saying "yuck" in the back of your mind. Why would I want that? Please tell me if there is room for improvement, if my bail is crooked, if my stone is too covered in wire for your tastes, if I need to get a better shine on my cab, if my tumbled stones have pits and polish in them . I am not saying that encouragement among members isnt important but making positive comments on something just for the sake of not offending is not being honest to the creator and IS NOT HELPING THEM in the long run. It would be ridiculous to expect all opinions to be the same or even positive about every piece of work that everyone posts on an international forum of thousands.
Now while there is no excuse for being downright mean or spewing foul things, I will always welcome constructive criticism of my work and will use it as a tool to improve.
Shannon
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uneekarts
starting to shine!
Member since December 2008
Posts: 42
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Post by uneekarts on Jan 1, 2009 12:57:12 GMT -5
37 days, heck, I'm so new I don't even know where the bathroom and candy machines are yet. Either way, I have some advice (oh let's call it an opinion) ;D I was involved in photography forums for several years and just like here, people would unintentionally get under one another's skin with the most innocent comments. There were flaming wars like you wouldn't believe. Eventually, it was decided that a "critique" forum was created where anyone posting there was willing to accept honest critique. It worked OK but still there were plenty of flames. Eventually, it was decided that people would put "Comments Welcome" at the end of their post and that opened it up even more so people did not get as offended so quickly. The bottom line is that since we are all participating in an open/public discussion, you never can be sure how what you say will be perceived by someone else. Usually, after a long period of time participating in the forums, people get a feel for one another, their sense of humor and their hot buttons. Then you just know intuitively who you can say what to. I would hope you are still participating and reading the forum because I appreciate both praise and critique equally and I want people to tell me when they know I could do better. A pat on the back is nice every once in a while as well. Here's to hoping I see some more posts and a wish for a happy 2009 on the forum. doc
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 1, 2009 19:11:21 GMT -5
Shannon- you're absolutely correct, however (my constructive critisism) ;D .... I'll say stuff like "that's and awesome wire wrap, one thing you coulld do to improve your work is tighter binding wraps. Try a smaller gauge wire for this, you'll be surprized at the results. I love your design!!" See?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2009 23:29:16 GMT -5
Randy, How dare you say that to me, I AM OFFENDED!!!! haha But seriously, I agree. Encouragement is important too so if you can offer that AND a suggestion, then all the better. Doc had a good idea too. For those that want their work critiqued, they can say COMMENTS WELCOME on their post or PLEASE OFFER SUGGESTIONS or something like that. Shannon
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 2, 2009 0:34:55 GMT -5
How about "ridicule welcome" ;D lol (I'm pickin on ya)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2009 1:32:41 GMT -5
A simple "PLEASE BASH MY WORK" would suffice. I will be expecting some good constructive criticism (ridicule) from you the next time I post something. Glutton for punishment is I. Shannon
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Post by Woodyrock on Jan 2, 2009 2:56:44 GMT -5
I think Shannon put the whole thing in her longer post very well. I often will not offer a critique knowing my blend of English/American can be misconstrued., whilst at the same time welcome any critique that will help me improve what I am doing. If one does not want to throw fuel in the fire, maybe a PM'd critique would be appropriate, but then only one person will learn from that approach. Woody
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Tigger
freely admits to licking rocks
The Wonderful Thing About Tiggers is I'm the Only One!
Member since January 2008
Posts: 896
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Post by Tigger on Jan 2, 2009 11:56:18 GMT -5
I was always taught that, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all". I look at all the posts but don't always reply to them. Becoming nasty, as the post that started this conversation has suggested, is just wrong. Nobody deserves to be treated in that manner. JMO
Tonja
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 2, 2009 21:48:05 GMT -5
If one does not want to throw fuel in the fire, maybe a PM'd critique would be appropriate, but then only one person will learn from that approach. Woody Damn right, bash them in private!! (messin around again) lol ....Hey Shannon, I'll be waiting, stand by for a large helping of ridicule. ;D
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