syfun
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since January 2009
Posts: 85
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Post by syfun on Jan 6, 2009 9:56:31 GMT -5
We're fairly new to tumbling. We went through a couple of the cheap kids tumblers that didn't even last one batch. I am just finishing up a homemade tumber. It uses an old furnace fan motor, V-belt and pulleys. I have made 5 barrels so far out of 4" PVC pipe with the wing-nut caps on each end. I ordered a bunch of grit, 5 lbs each to get us started. The grit ended up costing around $90.00.
So here's my question: Is there a more cost effective product out there to use as grit? Or is there a cheaper source? A friend suggested sandblasting sand as you can get a 50 lb bag for about $8.00. And I can buy that locally. From what I have found so far the coarsest sandblasting sand is about the equivalent of 500 grit. So that wouldn't help out on the early stages. Has anybody tried this?
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ejs
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 478
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Post by ejs on Jan 6, 2009 10:16:39 GMT -5
I have not tried sandblasting grit. I recently ordered 50 lb. of 60/90 silicon carbide (rough) grit and it cost $95 including shipping and handling. That's the cheapest I've found so far (from Miles Supply - I can provide a link if wanted).
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fanatic
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2007
Posts: 233
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Post by fanatic on Jan 6, 2009 11:01:23 GMT -5
Grit in smaller quantities less than 50 lbs is reasonably priced at www.rockshed.comAs far as using sandblasting grit it would depend on the composition of the grit and the classification. Anything softer than SiC (silicon carbide) would break down fast in the tumbler making it inefficient. How well the grit is classified will determine how good your surface finish will be.
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syfun
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since January 2009
Posts: 85
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Post by syfun on Jan 6, 2009 11:04:38 GMT -5
Well, in researching the sandblasting angle. I have found several local suppliers of sandblast media that also carry aluminum oxide and/or silicon carbide. They are all under a dollar a pound when buying 50 lbs or more. I found one place that quoted me 55 cents a pound for the lower grits of aluminum oxide in 50 lb bags.
So to kinda stick with the subject, but change the question. What do you like better, aluminum oxide or silicon carbide and why?
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Saskrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2007
Posts: 1,852
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Post by Saskrock on Jan 6, 2009 11:17:51 GMT -5
I have tried AO sand blast grit. In a word - DON'T. It just doesn't cut. Its almost as hard as SiC but it just isn't very abrasive.
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Post by sparkles on Jan 6, 2009 18:10:58 GMT -5
Hi and Welcome! I grappled with the cost too, but had to opt for the "real deal" SiC as the only route to a happy shine, however, regarding the discussion and conjecture, this is why AO don't cut the mustard... Under a microscope you can see the tiny grains themselves, first up Aluminium Oxide, and secondly the Silicon Carbide. As you can see - the particles have a particular shape, and although they break down in the tumbler with the action of the rocks, they also maintain a similar shape, just in smaller sizes. The Aluminium Oxide is slightly rounded odd shaped particles, and as such has a gentle action, and acts really well as a final polish in the finer grades. On the other hand, Silicon Carbide as you can see has very sharp pointed fragments, and even when broken, these particles continue to have sharp edges and points, and as such always present cutting faces when the rocks are tumbling in the barrel. Excellent cutting action. Hope that insight helps - sorry there isn't a cheaper option Cheers, Sparkles.
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Jan 6, 2009 21:52:58 GMT -5
... - sorry there isn't a cheaper option Cheers, Sparkles. Almost true, but the key as others have mentioned is- buy big and save more! when you get to the 50 lb lots, pricing starts to get almost reasonable.
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syfun
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since January 2009
Posts: 85
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Post by syfun on Jan 6, 2009 21:55:25 GMT -5
Wow, that really helps, thanks. I just checked my order from Rockshed.com and I ordered the 60/90 in SC, the 120/220 in SC, but the 500 and polish are AO. So I guess that is what I'll be using for the first few loads anyway. Some of the sandblast supply places had SC in various grits up to 250. It was still less than a dollar a pound for 50 pounds or more. Would 60/90 SC grit for tumbler be the same as 60/90 grit for blasting? If so, that's a nice discount on the cost right there. The 5 lbs I bought from rockshed figures out to be 2.50 a pound for both the 60/90 and the 120/220 grits.
I don't expect perfection in the first couple batches. I do expect it to turn out better than the two batches that went through the cheap toy tumblers. And that isn't expecting very much. All those did was knock off the edges and give a dull finish.
On a positive note, I just finished my homemade tumbler and I have 3 lbs of rocks tumbling right now, with no grit, but tumbling anyway. As soon as the grit arrives I'll get going for real. Until then, this will give the tumbler a nice test and let me know how I can improve it. I already have a few changes I want to make on it, but since I have already tore it apart and rebuilt it 3 times, I'd like to tumble some rocks before I tear it apart again.
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reelman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 114
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Post by reelman on Jan 6, 2009 22:03:11 GMT -5
I started out using 90, 220 then 400 grit. I could get the first 2 grits for $1.35 a lb. The 400 was expensive. I started running my 220 for 2 weeks and so far I'm happy with the results. It cut down my costs. For polish I now use the tripoli polish from Facets in Newport, OR. I had other tripoli which did not work as a finish polish. They use it on their rock so I tried it and liked it. Cost under $2. a lb.
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ejs
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 478
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Post by ejs on Jan 6, 2009 23:41:59 GMT -5
syfun: the regimen you described (60/90 SC, 120/200 SC, 500 AO, AO polish) is standard. That should work out just fine for you. How about posting some pics of your homemade tumbler?
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88pathoffroad
spending too much on rocks
Oregon ROCKS!
Member since August 2008
Posts: 305
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Post by 88pathoffroad on Jan 7, 2009 0:20:49 GMT -5
Sandblasting grit is often glass slag mixed with iron or other metal to make it bite better. I tried asking someone on Ebay what their blasting grit was, that's how I found out. I wish there were cheaper alternatives, bit SiC is really the way to go for rough and medium tumbling.
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syfun
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since January 2009
Posts: 85
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Post by syfun on Jan 7, 2009 0:39:33 GMT -5
Here goes a try for the pics. I just went out and after about 3 hours, the motor overheated and failed. I'll let it cool down and it will start rolling again, but that just means I need a new motor. That's why it's the "old" furnace motor. It failed on the furnace and was replaced. Anyway, here we go with the pics: This is it in it's entirety. Like I said earlier, I already know some improvements to make like putting the switch in the box like it was intended, taking out the casters and putting in a full length bar. Any suggestions are welcomed. This is it without the barrel Here are some of the barrels I made. I glued some strips of PVC insite the barrels to help tumble the stones. I'm not sure if it is the right idea or if they will even hold up, but it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. Here's a closer pic of the barrels. Let me know what you think.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Jan 7, 2009 7:07:59 GMT -5
This looks very similar to my first attempt! Including the strips on the inside and the casters... I used a constant diameter shaft, though.
I put a cap on one end, cut a coupler in half and glued it to the other end so that I would have the same diameter, and then used a test plug on that end. One less source for leaks.
You can buy collars for the shaft that will prevent the barrel from wandering.
Your electrical tape will likely wear off in no time. I sleeved my shafts with garden hose, after several attempts at other solutions.
Make sure you use actual drive shafts. I used cold rolled steel stock, which wasn't quite true. It made the barrel bounce up and down. Not a bad thing for the rocks, but it takes a toll on bearings, mountings, etc.
If I think of more, I'll post again.
Hope that helps, Chuck
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syfun
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since January 2009
Posts: 85
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Post by syfun on Jan 7, 2009 8:18:55 GMT -5
Hard Rock Cafe: So how did the strips on the inside of the barrels hold up? The tape was from a previous build, the other barrels don't have tape on them. I put some clear rubber tubing over the shaft, you can see where it stops about 5 inches from the pulley. It works great for turning the barrell, the rpm's are a bit high at 84 but I have to get a different motor anyway so I'll see what that turns up.
Thanks Steve
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jan 7, 2009 11:32:34 GMT -5
Did you try to lube the bearings? (some are sealed, but you can drill or punch a hole in the seal cover and lube. (Hey. you were going to toss it anyway right?)
Dr Joe
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Jan 7, 2009 19:15:13 GMT -5
My strips weren't as large/thick as yours, and they did wear down a little, but still do the job.
I couldn't tell that was clear hose; I thought your shaft changed diameter. That should do the trick!
Chuck
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Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Jan 7, 2009 20:19:43 GMT -5
True Grit
John Wayne
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syfun
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since January 2009
Posts: 85
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Post by syfun on Jan 7, 2009 21:35:15 GMT -5
Well, for an update, The grit was on the front steps when I got home tonight. The motor has holes in it to oil the bearings, so I repositioned it so they were on top and put some oil in. I also added brackets to the back of the motor and lifted it about half an inch off the wood, it was setting right on the wood. I removed the tape from the barrel and set up my first batch of rocks. It has been tumbling for 3.5 hours now, the motor is hot, but it is still running. I'm going to grab some aluminum heat sinks I saved from some old computers and glue them on the moter to help with the heat.
I also want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone out here. I have gained so much by reading your comments here and on other threads.
Thanks Steve
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Saskrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2007
Posts: 1,852
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Post by Saskrock on Jan 7, 2009 23:59:57 GMT -5
Furnace motors on tumblers tend to run a little on the hot side because of 1 or maybe 2 things. First they are a little big so underloading makes them heat up. Second some are made to have the fan suck air through them. If you just have the first its a little tough on the motor but mine has been going 2 yrs and was free. If its the second type it might not last long, but what do you have too loose. Just don't keep it too close to anything that burns.
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 8, 2009 8:46:33 GMT -5
That's a cool looking tumbler! Hey, when you got your grit, did Shawn send you any candy? lol
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