thejonesman
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 9
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Post by thejonesman on Feb 4, 2009 17:04:20 GMT -5
Hello,
I bought a Thumlbers AR-2 for my five year olds birthday; anyway we are both now totally into tumbling having finished our first batch. They came out pretty good for just backyard rocks.
I have ordered rough from the rock shed [which i discovered from this great forum] and we are on our 2nd batch...real nice set of Jasper...
My question is I am a gear head and would like to get another tumbler or vibrator just so we can do more....
-- As experienced rock polishing guys what would you get next??
I am thinking the 15lb Thumbler.... or should I go with a vibrator next??any preferences on makes models... budget is <$500.
All input welcome..
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Feb 4, 2009 17:54:35 GMT -5
I went with the Lortone QT6, the larger barrels are a plus as course cycles seem to run a little faster, and culling from 6lb batches seems to produce a good feed rate for my smaller 3lb loads when I go to the 2nd stage and beyond.
I would think going straight to a 12lb (Lortone QT12)or 15 lb (Thumlers Model B) machine as the next step might kind of overload the rest of your production cycle, but feeding your AR 2 from a couple of 6lb barrels should work out pretty well.
If you want to stick with Thumler's their 9lb single barrel might be something to look at.
Another approach as you mentioned would be to go for a vibe, relegate the AR-2 to doing course cycles and putting the vibe to work where shorter cycle times for stages 2 and up could be a plus...
If I had it to do over again, I think I'm OK with the way I went so far, but at the same time, where I am now I probably will buy a vibe machine for my next one.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 4, 2009 18:13:01 GMT -5
You're going to get a lot of opinions on this one. Some of us use vibes to speed up the tumbling process; you can finish a batch in a week after the coarse grind in a rotary. Vibes require a lot more attention, though; you need to check them 2-3 times a day. I think Thumler's Industrial (UV-10 or UV-18) and Lot-O are the most popular, but there are also Gyroc, Raytech, Lyman, and MiniSonic owners (and probably others I have forgotten). Stay away from Chicago Electric vibes or others made for case polishing/dry tumbling.
A lot of people have bought a cheap tile saw (like the WorkForce at Home Depot) to trim rocks and cut small slabs.
If you're lucky, you can find a used grinder and 10" saw for $500. A local rock club would be the best source for a deal, but you might get lucky with ebay.
Hope that helps! Chuck
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Mudshark
fully equipped rock polisher
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,083
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Post by Mudshark on Feb 4, 2009 19:09:20 GMT -5
Since your 5 year old is interested in tumbling you might want to look at a vibe unit like the Lot-O Tumbler.They do speed up the process and you can easily pop the cap off and watch the action.My kids like it.The rock shed has the single and double units.A saw of some type is a great thing to have.A grinder is also nice to have around.When I first started I was focused on tumblers but looking back I think I should have looked at a saw before buying more tumblers.what I do now is start by cutting the rocks on the saw,then they go into a rotary unit for the rough stage and then to the vibes for the rest of the stages.If you want to get into cabbing some sort of grinder would be next.I,m getting ready to build a cabbing machine now.If you are the DIY type there is a lot of info here on all sorts of stuff you can build.Take your time and have fun,equipment hunting is one most interesting parts of the hobby for me. Mike
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Post by Condor on Feb 4, 2009 19:29:21 GMT -5
I agree with the mudshark and HRC. Being that you have a little one and little ones want the polished rocks to be ready yesterday, I too would go with a vibrating tumbler. As for type, all of them are generally good except the Chicago Electric. I have Mini-sonics and have been quite pleased with them for years. If you go with a vibe, do make sure to go through the first stage in a rotarty and the rest of the stages in the vibe. Reason being is that the first stage will wear out the hoppers quite quickly. Even better, if you can collect rounded rocks, then just begin with 2nd stage in the vibe.
Have fun,
Condor
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wildoaks
starting to shine!
Member since November 2008
Posts: 31
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Post by wildoaks on Feb 4, 2009 21:00:04 GMT -5
I bought an A-R2 for my 10 year old's birthday last fall. It's a great machine. Lids can be a little tricky. My daughter sometimes holds one side of the O-ring, while I stretch the rest over. We soon felt it wasn't big enough though. So we bought a Model B. We're 4 weeks into our 1st coarse grind in it. Culled about half after 3 weeks. Seems like its doing a nice job so far. I like being able to put larger rocks in it. They're both very quiet machines. Gotta love those rubber barrels. I have both running in my basement. Can't hear the A-R2 from upstairs. And the Model B can be faintly heard - kinda like a washing machine. One thing about the Model B though and any large rotary - it takes a lot of rock($) and grit($) to fill it to the minimum level. Figure 9-10 lbs of rock and 1 lb of coarse grit. Vibes use much less grit. I recommend you shop around though. I ended up overpaying for the A-R2 because I procrastinated and then didn't have enough time to do my homework. But I picked up the Model B for $137 from Lock, Stock & Barrel a couple months ago. A good price I think. I am happy with the machine. If you go with one of Thumler's vibes, make sure it's the industrial model.
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thejonesman
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 9
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Post by thejonesman on Feb 5, 2009 13:43:52 GMT -5
Wow - lots of great ideas here...
i need to time to process I will [for sure] be posting some followup questions. One that comes to mind right now is:
If I get the model B this allows tumbling of larger rocks....[which i like] can those larger rocks be tumbled for prepolish & polish in the AR2? - or would I need to complete them in the large model B?? ie is the AR-2 restricted to the not more that 1.5 in category period?
Thanks again! Andy
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fanatic
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2007
Posts: 233
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Post by fanatic on Feb 5, 2009 13:58:01 GMT -5
Like was stated above, you'll get a lot of opinions on this one. You might want to decide what you want to accomplish before you decide.
if you decide to go with something like the QT-6 spend a couple bucks more and get the QT-66
Also, larger tumblers need a lot of rock and grit to operate. I can't imagine having to fill a 15 lb tumbler with the stuff I work with. I have two Lortone 33B's and a 33A - 5 three lb barrels running all the time and it gives me a lot of flexibility. I'm limited by the size of the rocks, but I haven't found that to actually be a limit yet.
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Feb 5, 2009 21:25:13 GMT -5
Oops, fanatic is right- I meant QT66 not QT6, I'm no longer an advocate of single barrel tumblers after my Model 3A experience.
my bad!
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wildoaks
starting to shine!
Member since November 2008
Posts: 31
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Post by wildoaks on Feb 5, 2009 21:51:37 GMT -5
How many rocks you can successfully tumble in say a 3lb barrel, or any barrel, depends on the size of the rocks. You may be able to get in a couple above recommended size, but the key is a good wide mix of sizes. I admit the Model B may have been a little overkill for me and has posed a dilemma recently: After 3 weeks of coarse, about half the load was good to move to the next phase. But the other 1/2 wasn't. These were mostly the larger stones and the ones I had added the week before to keep the load at the optimum level. What remained only filled the barrel to maybe 1/4+ and I had no more rough. Running low on grit too. And I wasn't too eager to buy more just yet. Fortunately I had some ceramic media. We'll see how that works. (Very little decent natural stone around here, so that's not much of an option.) It would be great if you could get a few barrels of different sizes and use them interchangeably with same motor/rollers. I think you can get an adapter to use 3lb barrels with the Model B motor/roller. Not sure about other sizes.
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Feb 6, 2009 21:06:55 GMT -5
I'd get a vibe next....I use my rotory tumbler to shape and coarse grind the rocks, then fine, polish and burnish them in a vibe....doing it that way cuts weeks out of the whole process, and IMO the vibe puts a better polish on the stones, especially the oddly shaped ones. If you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, the vibe will eventually pay for itself in the saved amount of grit and polish you'll use in it compared to a rotory tumbler.
MikeS
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Post by Michael John on Feb 7, 2009 2:35:36 GMT -5
Andy, I can tell you, first hand, that this hobby, as a whole, is one of the best things you can do for your family. All money you spend on it is one of the best possible investments you can make.
If you can afford $500...
1) WorkForce tile saw
2) Thumler's Model B - used strictly for rough tumbling
3) Vibe tumbler - see others' previous advice
Why all that? Your son's 5. You can't expect him to have patience or a long attention span. So, if you want to help him latch-on to this hobby, you have to take those things into consideration. But why all of this gear, you ask ...
You haven't yet experienced what's arguably the best part of this hobby ... rockhounding!!! It's SO much fun for the entire family! It gets everyone out of the house, out into nature, away from media and "electronica", and gives everyone a chance to relax, laugh, and talk. It also gets you a LOT of FREE, good rock to finish! After about 20 loads of tumbled stones that you and the family found (instead of paying the Rock Shed), you'll have saved enough to recoupe what you paid for the above-listed gear! PLUS, you provided quality time for the entire family that is just about impossible to get with any other hobby, without anyone ever complaining about it.
As for the gear ...
With the saw, you can cut small slabs. From the slabs you can cut "preforms". You can polish preforms in the vibe tumbler and be making jewelry and all sorts of things within about a week! Being inspired by this quick, easy, abundant supply of pretty, shaped stones, some or all family members may like to try wire wrapping, or gem trees, or many other things. Beautiful handmade items make very meaningful gifts for friends and family, or can even be sold to help fund the hobby.
If the family really takes to the hobby, perhaps later you could consider a cabbing machine, if the interest is there. These machines aren't cheap, so best to wait until you're sure that it will be put to good use before laying out that kinda cash.
:2cents:
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wildoaks
starting to shine!
Member since November 2008
Posts: 31
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Post by wildoaks on Feb 7, 2009 14:15:25 GMT -5
I completely agree with Michael John. I look at it like an investment in my family. Parents face so much competition for our children's attention these days. My daughter is very interested and my son's interest is growing. We left our first batch of polished stones on a paper plate in our family room for a long while. Not even a real great batch. But it was interesting to see how people's hands were drawn to it. Don't know if it's the cool smooth feel or the uniqueness. We can't wait 'til Spring to some rock hounding. Keep reading this forum. You'll learn so much and make new friends.
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thejonesman
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 9
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Post by thejonesman on Feb 10, 2009 13:55:38 GMT -5
Micheal John,
Excellent advice thank you.
My plan is to follow your and others advice and get the large tumbler for the rough; a vibe for the speed. -Which i will use at the weekends [since it seams you have to keep an eye of these more than the tumbler.]
I already have access to a tile saw - so thats good.
-and rock hounding.... sounds like fun.... i will have to investigate what good local places are. We are already a hiking family so adding in the rock hunting should add excitment to it.
Thanks again
Andy
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Post by rocklicker on Feb 10, 2009 14:58:18 GMT -5
Just be warned... once you get a saw and another tumbler, the itch just gets worse ;D . Pretty soon is another tumbler, then a slab saw and a cabbing machine, and you look in the back yard and it's full of piles or rocks, then... well it basically never ends. We are all still trying to find "rock bottom" ;D Steve
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 10, 2009 16:11:04 GMT -5
LOL Steve! Ain't that the truth. My wife told me yesterday that I'm obsessed.
Chuck
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 21:35:50 GMT -5
Hi rather than more equipment, may i suggest that you should get extra barrels (1 for each stage) & spares for your existing tumbler, then if you wish to speed up the process a similar sized tumbler so you can use your existing barrels. The final stage after cabbing is faceting & if you thought the cost of cabbing was expensive, well for just a basic entry level faceting machine do not expect much change from $2500. As for stones i prefer using locally found stones in addition to zero cost stones can be A1 quality even for faceting. If you specify where you live or county other members should be able to tell you what you may find there. You really need to keep a firm grip on the finances as they can get out control really fast & to the point that lapidary is no longer a hobby, but an addiction, also you need to keep in mind that your kids may loose interest after several weeks or months & finally you should have seen my back garden 30 years ago, it was more like a gravel quarry than a garden! This is what i have: 3lb Beach Tumbler: A = 1x 3lb barrel; B = 2x 1.5lb barrels. 3 x 1.5lb & 8x 3lb barrels 1 Barrel for F80 grit; 1st grind (Moh's 6+). 1 Barrel for F220 grit; smoothing Stage 1 (Moh's 6+); 1st grind (Moh's 5 or below). 1 Barrel for F400 grit; smoothing Stage 2 (Moh's 6+); smoothing Stage 1 (Moh's 5 or below). 1 Barrel for F600 grit; pre polish (Moh's 6+); smoothing Stage 2 (Moh's 5 or below). 1 Barrel for Cerium Oxide polish; for stones that are (Moh's 6+). 1 Barrel for Tin Oxide polish; for stones that are Moh's 5 & below. 1 Barrel for washing between each stage this is the only barrel that i need to clean between each stage. 1 Spare barrel & for washing after final polish. The 3lb Beach tumbler B: cost £80 including delivery & taxes ($116). I have enough grit & polish for at least 75 batches. Total cost to-date for everything is £280 ($408). I am not going to add any more lapidary equipment for at least 6 months no matter how cheap they appear to be, as i wish to keep lapidary as hobby & not another addiction (smoking & computers)!
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thejonesman
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 9
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Post by thejonesman on Feb 12, 2009 17:45:00 GMT -5
hey andrew
-i did buy some spare barrells so i can keep the polish ones seperated...
i also posted and get some great local feedback.... - i get to check out the first batch of jasper this weekend - cannot wait!
thanks!
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