summer
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 6 
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Post by summer on Feb 7, 2009 12:51:17 GMT -5
hi all - newbie to tumbling and newbie to here - I have a rock tumbler and started with a mixed bag of rock which came with the kit. I have just finished my 2nd load at the polish stage and yet again I have a problem with the edges of the stones getting a white blush. my method thus far has been dictated by the kit instructions (see below). the only variations have been longer at stage 1 as the rocks weren't very smooth and less time at stage 2. I also have a problem where chips and cracks appear at the polishing stage. Does anyone know what has caused the whiteness and how I can fix it and prevent it in future? also some stones get what looks like hairline fine lines running through, also in white  :help: many thanks Stage one.
2/3 to 3/4 fill your barrel with stones of a similar hardness about 3/4 inch in size. Add water to the top of the stones then a tablespoon of course 80 grit. Close the lid securely and place the barrel on the tumbling machine. Start the machine & leave it to tumble for 5 - 8 days. After this time wash the stones & the inside of the barrel & lid very well to ensure that there are no traces of course grit left (very important if poor results are to be avoided), use a tooth brush or similar if this helps.
Stage two.
Return the stones to the barrel & add water to the top of the stones then a tablespoon of fine 400 grit. Close the lid securely and again leave to tumble for 12 - 14 days. Follow the steps in stage one for barrel cleaning.
Stage three.
Return the stones to the barrel & add water to the top of the stones then a tablespoon of polish (cerium oxide). Start the machine & leave it to tumble for 5 - 8 days to complete.some pics:    |
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Feb 7, 2009 13:32:12 GMT -5
I think what you are seeing is imperfections and scratches in the rocks that are filling up with slurry (the gunk produced when you tumble) This is completely normal and unaviodable, and these will be removed in later stages of tumbling by the finer grits. Before moving the rocks to the next stage, wash them thorughly (sp).
As for fractues and cracks, well, they happen, it depends greatly on the material you are tumbling. Some are very prone to it, others are much tougher and resist it. As long as there are no sharp edges created by the chip/crack, I wouldn't worry too much about it....
Mike
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summer
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 6
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Post by summer on Feb 7, 2009 13:42:00 GMT -5
Hi Mike thanks for your reply. I thought I was already at the final stage when the white appears - it is the cerium oxide stage. I clean everything carefully and use a separate barrel for my polish. I was wondering if it was caused by being in one of the stages for too long? since it only appears on the edges of the stones, almost like the white which appears on the edge of rubber when you stretch it across an edge?? hard to explain but you suggest the white will go in the final stage - what should I do if the white only appears in the final stage? much appreciated sir  summer |
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 7, 2009 14:39:56 GMT -5
That white blush effect is actually scratches and dings which occur in the later stages due to not enough cushioning of the load. First off, a good mix of sizes will cushion some of the knocking together effect, Second, I always use lots of plastic pellets in every stage after coarse grind. The white areas are caused by stone to stone impacts in the final stages so you simply have to eliminate that issue. Also, you'll see less edge damage if you have less edges to damage. More time in coarse with recharges every week will make for more rounded stones that will be easier to polish. I also find a four stage process yields the best results. Coarse,60/90 till rounded and smooth, then fine grind 110/220, tripoli prepolish and final polish....Mel
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summer
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 6
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Post by summer on Feb 7, 2009 14:44:58 GMT -5
I have read about pellets but my supplier doesn't sell them. In fact more research shows that the starter pack was mostly rubbish material. I guess they don't send the good stuff with their kits. So I might look for a new supplier in the uk... I have had some brilliant results with beach stones, but I think the sea did half the work many thanks btw - will it be any use adding sugar to the polish cycle? and I have heard of adding soap but I'm not sure what type of soap. Would soda crystals do any harm? |
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Feb 7, 2009 16:21:41 GMT -5
ceruim oxide tends to leave a haze on stones....you can burnish it off using powdered laundry detergent or ivory bar soap flakes in the tumbler after the polish stage....don't add sugar.
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Post by NatureNut on Feb 7, 2009 17:17:14 GMT -5
I got plastic pellets from my local fabric store. These were made to go in vases, but I've heard you can also use the ones for stuffing bean bags, like Beanie Babies. I've also heard that you can try round plastic beads, but haven't tried them. You can re-use plastic pellets, but make sure that you keep them separated according to cycle. I have containers labeled "Fine, PrePolish, Polish".
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Post by MyNewHobby on Feb 7, 2009 17:35:37 GMT -5
Oh goody! You sound just like me in early January. ;D
These people will get you straight and help you along as you want help.
Do you have a Rolling Stones Tumbler?
I started with one, a couple of weeks later bought another one, and just recently was given a gift a twin 3lb barrel Lortone Tumbler.
You will love it here and will learn from the most awesome people.
This is a blast!!!
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ejs
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 478
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Post by ejs on Feb 7, 2009 19:38:52 GMT -5
From your description, I suspect that your rocks are being damaged during polish from lack of cushioning and from being mixed hardness. To solve the first problem, use pellets, as recommended here. The second problem arises when you use mixed stones of varying hardness. The harder stones will damage the softer stones. To avoid this problem, always tumble stones of similar hardness in a batch.
Keep trying, don't be afraid to post again (photos always help), and remember: the rocks are never ruined! They can always go back to an earlier stage for another round. Good luck!
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 7, 2009 20:07:41 GMT -5
I agree with the posts above, particularly the need to add pellets to make up for the stone that is ground away in coarse. The hairline fractures you're seeing throughout the stones may have been there all along, but the polish is fine enough to get in them so that you can see them. Borax also works well as a burnish; not sure if it's available in the UK.
Soda crystals? Are they washing soda? Yes, those will work, too. Run for about 5 hrs.
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carloscinco
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2008
Posts: 1,639
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Post by carloscinco on Feb 7, 2009 21:00:58 GMT -5
I use plastic pellets during the burnish as well. The water and borax or soap is thin compared to slurry and I think the impacts between rocks can be sharper. I had a "dop" moment when I polished with plastic pellets and burnished without and caused numerous chips in some agates with quartz spots.
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Post by llana2go on Feb 8, 2009 9:57:05 GMT -5
I hate those dang plastic pellets. I use plastic tile spacers. I find them much easier to recover, they last longer than the pellets and you can get them at almost any hardware store.
I can't remember who suggested them years ago when I started tumbling, but I sure do thank them!
llana
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Post by LCARS on Feb 9, 2009 0:58:36 GMT -5
I hate those dang plastic pellets. I use plastic tile spacers. I find them much easier to recover, they last longer than the pellets and you can get them at almost any hardware store. I can't remember who suggested them years ago when I started tumbling, but I sure do thank them! llana C'mon now, not even the people who swear by ceramic media over plastic pellets actually "hate" them!  Oh no, I think the only people who'd say they "hate" plastic pellets are the ones who tried using them before but didn't know the easy way to separate them from the stones so they gave up on them, calling them "messy" and "annoying" when really they are quite effective, cheap & simple to work with. :nono: So, did I call that one right or wrong? ;D |
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Post by llana2go on Feb 9, 2009 18:26:58 GMT -5
So, did I call that one right or wrong? ;DWRONG! I really hate 'em! I do use a strainer to recover them - learned that here too! They are just pesky little devils. I do use them just because I have a big jar full that are usable. I use them mostly for polish and the tile spacers for everything else. I really do like the tile spacers a lot better than the pellets. Wish I would have known about them BEFORE I bought 5 lbs. of pellets! llana
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 9, 2009 19:12:46 GMT -5
I hate the plastic pellets, too. :-( And I float them and strain them. I use them only when absolutely necessary to fill out a small load when I don't have more rocks of that hardness.
Chuck
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carloscinco
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2008
Posts: 1,639
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Post by carloscinco on Feb 9, 2009 19:27:10 GMT -5
Do tile spacers float? Is the polish you achieve with tile spacers as nice as the polish you got with pellets?
Is the purpose of pellets/spacers to reduce impact velocity between rocks by taking up space which would reduce the distance rocks move between impacts?
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Post by LCARS on Feb 10, 2009 3:43:39 GMT -5
Oh well, I guess I just got used to using the little buggers since they were the first thing I tried and they seem to work fine for me... and i've still got a couple pounds of them left so dammit i'm gonna use 'em! ;D
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summer
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2009
Posts: 6
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Post by summer on Feb 16, 2009 13:25:29 GMT -5
wow thanks for all the helpful replies - and what a warm welcome.
ok so now I have obtained new grit so I can do 4 stages - grind, rub, smooth and polish *grin*
I also have a bag of pellets. My question is, what quantity of pellets should I add if my barrel is 3/4 full of stones? And do I use them at smooth and polish?
btw - is burnish the 3rd stage or the last stage?
I'm a bit confused about which is which re burnish and polish.
also if I add soda crystals - how much do I add, and is it just soda or soda with cerium oxide? (and water of course)
many thanks
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ejs
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 478
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Post by ejs on Feb 16, 2009 14:44:06 GMT -5
Hi, Summer. I'm sure others will pipe up with various answers.
Most people use the term "burnish" to refer to a final cleaning after the polish stage. This can help remove stray polish and improve the final shine. Most people burnish with 1 TB of Borax or 1 TB of grated pure Ivory bar soap in a 3# rotary tumbler, with water just covering or just below the top of the rocks. Burnish times range from a few hours to a day or two. Some people swear by the burnish, others really don't like it due to the risk of chipping at the very end. Many people recommend adding cushioning to the burnish, typically plastic pellets that were used in the final polish.
I hope that helps! I'm sure others will have many opinions, both similar and different.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Feb 17, 2009 1:26:39 GMT -5
Hi Summer, Welcome to RTH, I also do as ejs above Over here (uk) you can get Borax at Boots the chemist Ido a 24 to 48 hour burnish before the final polish this is after 3rd stage 600 grit (see the RTH recepie) I find the longer Burnishing/washing stage the rocks have rubbed against each other and im sure it helps as they come out with a shine before the final polishing cycle It also helps to dislodge any particle of grit and wash it away here is a link to a few stones from our Ne coast polished up by this method,(note the flower colours in the center stone) It takes about 2 to 3 months to get to this finish with the rotary. img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/john-edward/Test2004.jpgJack Yorkshire UK PS There is a good firm in the Sw also Manchester Minerals have a good suply of grinding materials PM me if you want more details, J |
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