tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 5, 2009 13:40:19 GMT -5
Just wondering if anyone has tried using sand as a pre-tumble before the first stage of 60/90 grit?
If not that rushed to really start my first stage, I'll pre-tumble using sand, or the dust left over from smashing rocks. It seems to work fairly well. Instead of recharging everytime with new 60/90 grit.
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docharber
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2008
Posts: 716
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Post by docharber on Apr 5, 2009 13:52:50 GMT -5
No reason it wouldn't work, but it would oly cut soft materials. It needs to be coarse builder's sand. Windblown sand like what you find in deserty areas is rounded to the point it won't cut. it isn't useful for concrete production, eityher and that's why the Saudis have to import building sand. It would be useful, I guess, for cleaning off adherent mud and grainy material and removing crusts of soft minerals like calcite. Add vinegar and you have some real potential there. What kuind of stuff do you tumble and what effect does the sand seem to have? How long do you run that stage?
Mark H.
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Apr 5, 2009 13:54:13 GMT -5
that's great, I was just thinking that very thing last night! I have a bunch of silica sand, I was thinking about using it in the tumbler prior to the 60/90, or maybe even in the vibe, I was thinking the sand in the vibe would be a great way to get good coverage and have a cushioning effect....however I'm concerned about the sand possibly scratching the material in the 500 and above stages...I'm going to test it on a batch of pet wood I'm not too concerned about...
I know my Grandfather used to use a hard gravel in his tumbler before the 60/90 stage...I still have a small amount of it...I'm not sure what kind of material it is...it's rough, angular, kind of black/grey...
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tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 5, 2009 14:30:31 GMT -5
Docharber,
The effect is not that great, but it does seem to knock off the sharp edges. I polish anything found mostly agate, and pet wood, or anything else that may look nice polished. Bought some Amethyst, smokey quartz and tiger eye, which are tumbling with sand now. I'll get some pictures to show examples of rough, before and after tumbling in sand for about 45 hours. Normally about 100 hours at 78 rpm in sand. It isn't that often I do a pre-grind with sand, but it seems to help.
Mikes,
Use the sand only in a pre-grind stage before you start the first 60/90 stage. Never use the sand anywhere else execpt as a pre-grind.
The sand is used as a replacement of the 60/90 grit. Re-charge as you go with new sand, if you are happy then you can start the first tumble with 60/90. Plus the sand or rock dust is free. Re-charging everytime with first grind 60/90 grit can get costly.
This is just my idea, been doing this for a while and certainly won't hurt your hardest stones.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2009 14:33:08 GMT -5
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tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 5, 2009 16:53:54 GMT -5
Try it for a pre grind a few times, before you use the first 60/90 stage and see what happens with your stones.
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tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 6, 2009 18:06:46 GMT -5
Example of using sand as a pre-grind. Before sand:  After sand tumbling for 45 hours:  |
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
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Post by MikeS on Apr 6, 2009 18:46:13 GMT -5
that's not too bad, it would definately save a lot of 60/90....
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Post by NatureNut on Apr 6, 2009 19:39:57 GMT -5
Tom, what kind of sand did you use and how much?
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tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 6, 2009 20:26:18 GMT -5
If it's even muddy sandy stuff will work. You can basically place rough stones in a barrel with just water and the stones will create their own grit and round off some. It happens in nature, why wouldn't it happen in our tumblers?
Grab a handful of any type sand and give it a try..see what happens.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Apr 7, 2009 2:12:08 GMT -5
I Always thought Sand was to soft ?
I suppose it is the area your from If your sand is from a sandstone base = soft or a jasper Agate area would be harder ?
Jack
Yorkshire UK
Jack
Yorkshire UK
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Apr 7, 2009 8:21:50 GMT -5
we have commercial grade silica sand at work, it has a lot of quartz in it and a decent grain size, I bet it would work well...
Home depot sells similar sand for use in sandboxes and it's cheap....
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tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 7, 2009 18:52:35 GMT -5
Useing sand and water or nothing execpt water with your rough stones will do some degree of rounding. It doesn't matter what you are using as grit, just add a handfull, about 6-8 table spoons, add water to just cover the top of your stones and let it shake, rattle and roll. See what happens after 2-5 days.
Most certainly the sand does help, but not as great as the 60/90. Could save some money if your are not in a real hurry to get your stones done. Or a low budget guy, like me, trying something different.
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Post by LCARS on Apr 9, 2009 0:38:41 GMT -5
I have tumbled using sand as a "pre-grit" media more than a few times but I use it to clean rocks I collect or rocks that have been sitting outside for a while and have gathered organic mung. I will tumble them for a few hours with 4-5Tbsp of sifted beach sand or bulk quartz sand (available at craft stores or cheaper if you can find it as white sand ashtray filler). It definately starts to take the sharp edges off if you leave it going for a while but it would round off and break down quickly with most stones.
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chadman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2008
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Post by chadman on Apr 9, 2009 2:28:44 GMT -5
Just wondering if anyone has tried using sand as a pre-tumble before the first stage of 60/90 grit? A few old timers used to use sand in place of 60/90 because it was cheap. it takes longer. What makes Silicon carbide a better cutter is that it tends to break into smaller bits but fractures with new sharp/fresh cutting edges as it breaks down. |
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tom
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2009
Posts: 50
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Post by tom on Apr 9, 2009 17:20:41 GMT -5
Thanks LCARS, and Chadman for proving the idea of using sand to be true.
Yes, it does take longer to round them, but cheaper than always using the store brand.
Time willing, I'll try a batch of rough we found in the woods from previous houndings. Start them off using the sand from my front lawn. Get pictues of them before the start, and recharge with new sand every 100 hours for 400 hours soley using sand to give others a better idea of how it works to show some degree of rounding.
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drahcir
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2009
Posts: 7
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Post by drahcir on Apr 10, 2009 22:15:25 GMT -5
Using sand for the initial tumbling stage is a great idea; well done! I've experimented with using the rocks themselves or small rocks of about the same hardness as the primary rocks. This also works, but I suspect not as well as your sand method.
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Post by LCARS on Apr 10, 2009 23:27:49 GMT -5
I can't see any reason why cheap commercially available crushed quartz sand wouldn't be a good alternative abrasive media for shaping up some of the more troublesome softer materials like malachite and calcite.  |
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Post by Michael John on Apr 11, 2009 3:08:39 GMT -5
One thing to remember is that there's another cost to consider ... electricity. Motors running 24/7 use a considerable amount, and electricity aint cheap these days. For the extra time it takes to use sand, you pay more for electricity. Best case scenario, you're not saving nearly what you think you are ... worst case, you're actually paying more.
"There's no such thing as a Free Lunch."
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Post by sandsman1 on Apr 11, 2009 3:25:39 GMT -5
i know this is about sand but i ran a 6lb barrel for like two weeks with just water in it and i was surprised how much it shaped the rock if you have some iffy rough and wanna see whats there im bettin that would work without wasting grit on junk rock like i said i was shocked that it rounded out alot of it and cleaned the junk off enough to check for fracturs and what not
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