Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 7, 2009 22:25:17 GMT -5
For a variety of reasons, my tumblers have been stopped for the last 13 months, but they're rolling again tonight!
My 12-lb. barrel has agates, chalcedony, & petrified wood that my wife collected on the Chain of Rocks gravel bar on the Illinois side of the Mississippi River across from St. Louis. I plan to tumble it in coarse grit for five weeks.
One of my 6-lb. barrels has some Chain of Rocks material I collected and some small slabs I got from a lapidary friend's back yard rock pile. I plan to tumble it in coarse grit for five weeks, too.
Another 6-lb. barrel has a variety of stuff that I had previously run through coarse grit. Its in medium grit for five weeks.
My last 6-lb. barrel has a variety of stuff that I had previously gotten through fine grit. Its in polish for a couple of weeks.
I'm trying some experiments. A friend showed me some Mozarkite (flint) that he polished using only Ivory soap & they looked pretty good. So, I'm trying Ivory soap as the polish in that last barrel. Just rocks, water, and soap.
The same friend said that he gets most of his rocks ready for polish by running them in coarse grit for five weeks. He doesn't even open the barrel during that time (I'm going to have to peek!). After those five weeks, he cleans the rocks and polishes them (in Ivory) for two weeks. So, I'm hoping that the loads I just put in coarse and medium can go straight into polish. We'll see!
|
|
10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
|
Post by 10thumbs on Apr 7, 2009 22:48:04 GMT -5
I admire your patience because this definitely isn't the fastest way to get results. Most sources indicate that after about a week your course grinding compound will have broken down and no longer be effective. Obviously there are lots of variables (mineral hardness, tumbling speed, viscosity of your slurry). After five to seven days I'll test the slurry (just rubbing it between my fingers) and if I don't feel any grit I dump out the mix, give the rocks a quick rinse and throw the back in tumbler with fresh grit. I suppose the rocks will break down eventually no matter what you put in there assuming you're willing to tumble them indefinitely. The Grand Canyon is proof of that. But if you follow some of the tumbling best practices it will probably be more satisfying and you'll be less likely to lose interest for months (years?) at a time.
|
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 8, 2009 0:26:58 GMT -5
A couple of hours after I got rolling again, I went to make sure everything was OK. It wasn't!
The lid of the 12-lb barrel popped off, spilling grit, rocks, and water onto the table, the floor, and down the floor drain! Fortunately, I don't think much grit went down the drain; various obstacles on the table and floor stopped it. I think that all of the rock stayed on the table, right under the tumbler (the tumbler has an open bottom, so the sides contained most of the rock & grit). As I cleaned up, I tried to get as much grit as I could back into the barrel & trash can, not letting it loose.
Now my question is this: what could have caused the lid to come off & what can I do to prevent this in the future? The barrel is a normal 12-lb. Lortone. I bought it used last summer and had not used it before today. Is there something I should check on the barrel or lid? I have another 12-lb. barrel, but its bottom is worn out. Should I use its lid on the new (to me) barrel? I tightened the top pretty well, but not quite as much as I could have. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Apr 8, 2009 1:03:41 GMT -5
There's two possibilities ... either you didn't tighten it enough or something is off-gassing. Did you clean all of the rough real well before you put it in there? Does the agate and/or chalcedony have cratered surfaces? Any idea what was tumbled in the barrel before you got it? Did you clean the barrel real well before you used it? Is the seal in good condition ... pliable with no dry-rot or tears?
|
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 8, 2009 13:40:52 GMT -5
Michael John:
Thanks for your note!
We did not clean either the rocks or the barrel particularly well. Most of the rocks are fairly smooth from rolling around in the Mississippi River on their way to the gravel bar, I have no idea what was tumbled in the barrel before I got it. I did not notice any problems w/ the seal. I'm @ work right now; I'll take a closer look when I get home.
Would gas build up that quickly? It was less than two hours from the time I closed the barrel to the time I discovered the problem. We have not had gas problems w/ other rocks from the gravel bar.
How tight do you put on your lids? As tight as you can get them w/ just your hands?
|
|
10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
|
Post by 10thumbs on Apr 8, 2009 14:51:44 GMT -5
Typically gas build up results from having more reactive substances in play. Rubber barrels are inert and regardless of what your tumbling venting the barrel once every 24 hours is usually sufficient. I have heard the metallic barrels and tumbling glass are the big culprits for gas build up but I've never used either.
Based on the timing I'd blame the Old Muddy Mississippi. Lord knows how much detergent and chemicals are coating your river rocks. You'll probably want to give them a good cleaning in the future.
You should just hand-tighten your lids.
|
|
|
|
Post by LCARS on Apr 9, 2009 0:26:30 GMT -5
Sounds like the lid didn't seal properly. Usually it should just leak if it's not sealed but if it fell apart within a couple hours then there may be more to it...? You should not even be able to pull the lid off with reasonable force when it's tightened and sealed properly.  The way the lid seal works on those barrels is that the inner aluminum lid will snugly fit in the mouth groove and then the tapered outer lid pushes the sides in a bit closer to the top and as you tighten the knurled nut it pulls the inner lid upward a bit while pushing the outer lid down, creating a pressurized seal. Next time you are assembling it, just pay close attention to how the lid parts "feel" and if anything seems loose you can try to work it a bit and tighten a bit more to see if theat helps. On the other hand, you may have ended up with a barrel that has a lid assembly that's out of tolerance with the actual barrel mouth.  |
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 10, 2009 14:56:28 GMT -5
Thanks for your notes!
The lid that came w/ the new-to-us tumbler seems to be in good shape, as does the barrel itself. However, the lid from the other barrel seems to fit more tightly. So, I think I'll try that one & tighten it a bit more than I did before.
My wife reports that she did give the rocks a good rinse when she brought them home.
I think I'll put in some baking soda, too. After I put the lid on, I'll try giving it a good pull to test it.
I'm also looking for something to put under it to catch the mess if it happens again. Any suggestions? The bottom of the frame is almost 16" x 26" (the frame holds one motor, two 6-lb. barrels, and the 12-lb. barrel). I'm looking for a plastic box (I'll leave the lid off, of course), but haven't found one that's quite right yet.
I have had the polish barrel going since Tuesday evening (4/7). After cleaning up the mess from the 12-lb. one, I got the other two 6-lb. barrel going again Wednesday evening. I hope to have the 12-lb. barrel going again tomorrow.
|
|
10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
|
Post by 10thumbs on Apr 10, 2009 15:46:11 GMT -5
Brad,
Great idea on the baking soda! That is exactly what my old lapidary references say to do to alleviate gas build up. I've never had to use it.
You can pick up a masonry tub at your local home improvement mega-store. You'll find them in the cement aisle usually on the floor. I have one for my tile saw that was only about $5. They have bigger sizes though that cost a couple bucks more. (Original idea came from rockmanken).
Thanks,
Scott
|
|
|
|
Post by LCARS on Apr 10, 2009 23:32:39 GMT -5
Don't use baking soda in your barrels, it will actually PRODUCE CO2 GAS when it reacts with any type of acid, many types of rocks & minerals do contain some weak acids.  I think a big part of the reason why man made glass produces such a noticeable amount of gas when tumbled is due to the soda content in it.  |
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 12, 2009 0:24:08 GMT -5
Happy Easter! As I enjoy bringing out a bit of the beauty that God put in the rocks I'm tumbling, I hope & pray that many of you may know the love & power of the One who raised His Son from the dead on the first Easter morning!
The 12# barrel has been rolling for about 12 hours now, & it seems to be working fine! Thanks for your ideas & comments!
To catch any leaks, I got one of those plastic boxes that are designed to go under beds. It is long enough to hold both tumblers (the one w/ three barrels & the separate 6# one), narrow enough to leave room for other things on the table, and shallow enough to reach into easily. (I liked the idea of the masonry tub, but the dimensions weren't quite right for my configuration.) I put some bricks in the box & set the tumblers on those. So, if I have another lid pop off, the slurry should be contained in the box without leaving the tumbler (& electric motor) sitting in a puddle.
I did put just a little baking soda in. LCARS is right about baking soda & acid making CO2 gas. However, I've read this suggestion in several places, so I think there might be something to it. Although some rocks are acidic, other are not. Maybe the baking soda only helps with alkaline rocks? May be I need to get some litmus paper. Anyway, I'm hoping that if my rocks are acidic, the small amount of baking soda I used won't be enough to cause a problem. On the other hand, if it will help, maybe I used enough to be beneficial.
|
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 14, 2009 23:01:10 GMT -5
All four barrels seem to be doing OK. I opened them yesterday just to check. The batch that is polishing in Ivory soap is scheduled to be done about Sunday. I'm anxious to see how that works! The slurry for one batch is brown (the combination of little slabs & Chain of Rocks pieces); the others are gray.
|
|
|
|
Post by LCARS on Apr 15, 2009 0:03:47 GMT -5
Glad to hear it's "condition normal" so far.  |
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Apr 22, 2009 12:22:48 GMT -5
Still rolling...
The Ivory soap did not work very well as polish for this load of rocks. My friend says he uses it for agates, jaspers, & other cryptocrystalline quartz. My load had lots of white, rose, & smoky quartz. So, I've rinsed the rocks & put them in cerium oxide (& water, of course) for a few days (probably until Sunday. I think I'll try the Ivory as polish again sometime. In the meantime, I might use it as pre-polish to make sure that all the grit is gone.
The other loads seem to be progressing nicely. I opened them all last night. The slurry was getting pretty thick in a couple of them, plus the volume of rocks was reduced (as expected). So, I took out some of the sludge and put in some water (less water added than sludge removed). When I started them back up, it sounded like the rocks were moving more (though not too much).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 9:13:30 GMT -5
Brad: Ivory soap is not a polish in itself, it is a burnish for cleaning your rocks just like borax.
However you can add it with your polish, sometimes it speeds up the polishing process!
|
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Jun 3, 2009 22:54:30 GMT -5
Updates:
Polish load - Some rocks looked better after a week in cerium oxide polish, but many still did not take a good polish.
Wife's Chain of Rocks load - my wife insisted on using traditional methods with this batch & it turned out beautifully! Actually, we took a bit of a shortcut. After the medium grit, she wanted to run them in Ivory for a few days to make sure they were clean before the fine grit step. Some of them looked so nice after the Ivory that she almost pulled them out. Instead, we did them in tin oxide polish for a week, skipping the fine grit. They look great!
My load of COR material plus rock pile slabs - looks great after five weeks in coarse grit (no recharges). I'll be putting it in to "polish" with Ivory as soon as my polish barrel is available.
My load of various stuff - also looks great after five weeks in medium grit (no recharges). They are also awaiting their turn to be polished. We'll see how the Ivory works on the other load before deciding what to use as a polish.
I have had no more problems with leaks!
Now, I have nine pounds of Lakers in my big barrel. One 6# barrel has more COR stuff & more little slabs. The other 6# barrel has a couple of types of pet wood, including some fairly big chunks (a few are more than 4 oz.).
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael John on Jun 4, 2009 11:11:32 GMT -5
PICS!!!
|
|
Brad
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2006
Posts: 161
|
Post by Brad on Jun 4, 2009 12:19:54 GMT -5
MJ - I'll see if my wife will let me borrow her rocks to take some pictures, but not before Saturday.
BTW, when I was writing my note last night I forgot that the load of COR material plus rock pile slabs is polishing in Ivory right now. It will be done Sunday, but I might not get to open it until Monday (church, then rock club picnic, then back to church - Sunday's gonna be busy). It will be interesting to compare my results with the COR material w/ what we got from my wife's batch.
|
|
