theoutsider
starting to shine!
Member since February 2008
Posts: 28
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Post by theoutsider on Apr 13, 2009 0:32:02 GMT -5
Hmmm you people seem to be able to turn out finely polished rocks in about 2 months time.
I have had the same rock (Jasper) tumbling in 60/90 and 120/220 the pre-polish and the polish stage for a year. Yes I know I have a 15 lb tumbler and fill it about 3/4 full of rock and then go to it. Maybe it is not me after all but the fact I own a tumbler and not a vibe.
Anyway, I noticed if I let the rocks I have tumbled sit around for a few weeks they end up having more of a shine after 120/220 than with the polish I am using. And there lies the second problem probably...As I bought a bit of Aluminum Oxide that really seems to be crappy.
I know cerium oxide is widely used so maybe I should go with that for the final polish.....
Any ideas as to why my rock tumbling efforts seem to go in reverse instead of a steady progress....Maybe it is my attempt at perfection (which there lies the 3rd problem perfection with lapidary is hard and far between to achieve)
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Apr 13, 2009 8:20:22 GMT -5
Running for a year? man that is a long time! I can see running the 60/90 for a couple of months- recharging every week or so, but the rest of the cycles shouldn't need to run more than a week under normal circumstances.
You didn't tell us where you got your aluminum oxide, that might hold a clue.
Others around here have run the experiment and come back with rocks that actually got shiny after running several months in just 60/90 that broke down.
Lots of things can create setbacks in this process, are you;
a) running your batch es with a mix of small and medium sized rough?
b) being VERY thorough with cleaning the batch and barrel between stages?
c) only "graduating" the best of the batch to the next stage each time?
d) using plastic pellets in all of the stages after 60/90?
that is only a short list, take some time to dig around here and read up on what has worked for other people.
Many of us have taken to using a couple of "pre-polish" stages, I seem to get my best results using a 500 grit SiC stage after 120-220, then follow that up with some 1000 AlOx before going to AlOx polish.
Then, normally I only run polish for 5-7 days. If some things still aren't quite how I want them after that, I set those aside until I have a big enough batch to run in Cerium Oxide, again just for a week, if some of those aren't up to snuff, I'll run them in a Tin Oxide polish.
Cerium oxide polish is no panacea, it comes in many different grades and in my experience even the good stuff doesn't do the job on every stone type.
One last thing to consider, a 15lb barrel is pretty huge, which in each turn means rocks have pretty far to fall and gather momentum, which could be doing some damage in the later stages, you might get better resilts using either a smaller rotary (say 2X3lb barrels) or as you hinted- a vibe for your pre-polish and polish stages, that would also help alleviate any grit carry-over/contamination issues from setting you back.
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chadman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2008
Posts: 106
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Post by chadman on Apr 13, 2009 11:50:23 GMT -5
Hmmm you people seem to be able to turn out finely polished rocks in about 2 months time. Help us examine your methods. (pics if you can). What kind of material? How many RPMs are the barrels turning? Are you using a good variety of large and small rocks? Rotary tumbling works best when you use a good variety of sizes IMO. I have about 12 - 5 gallon buckets of beach agate and jasper. I have 4 barrels running at 60/90 all the time. A fifth barrel runs last stages. Every time I clean a barrel for recharge, I dump the rock on a rock screen over my outdoor wash basin and clean them. I grade the rock in 2 buckets. Rock that needs more grinding and rock that can move on to the next stages. I recharge the rock that needs more grinding and leave the rock that can move on in bucket until I have enough for a full barrel of rock to start finish stages 2 through polish. No rock moves on before it's time. I sort by this criteria: Are ALL the imperfections gone OR will grinding the rock further help it harm it? (Aesthetics). Some agates like skinned agates are best when you don't grind all the skin away. Some imperfections should be tolerated if unique features would be removed by further grinding. I give away all the rock but the stuff I could take to a show. I put them in crystal bowls and give them as x-mas gifts. People love them. I don't tell them they are my so-so stuff. Great stuff but just so-so. Will the rock break because of cracks in it and mess up the rest? Does the rock have a hole or crack in it that can hold grit from a previous stage and release it later to mess up the current or last stage? It's okay to have holes so long as you can see that they can't hold unseen grit. Cleaning COMPLETELY before any next stage is critical. I scrub my barrel that does the last stages, between each stage rigorously. Once you move onto the second stage, each should only be 10 days. I go 14 for polish. I have never used plastic pellets. I rely more on the integrity of each rock and a good mix of size variation. |
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Post by MyNewHobby on Apr 13, 2009 12:10:16 GMT -5
Great advice from all ...
For me ... I do the same thing (sort of).
When I check batches, I do the same thing, I separate out into (plastic cups (I have twin 3 lb barrel) Lortone the various stages rocks are ready for. I keep up the 60/90 and have cups with rocks ready for 120/220, pre-polish and polish.
Depending on the rocks (at least for me) will determine what stage they are still in or ready for.
So far ... I have not had problems with my grit or polish. I think this is due to my purchasing from The Rock Shed.
And .... learning the hard way ... I now use pellets in all my stages.
As always
Julie
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Apr 13, 2009 12:20:24 GMT -5
I'll certainly give you an A for effort! Wow, you must have the patience of a saint.  I wouldn't use pellets in the first grind because they will slow down the grinding. I would use them in every stage after that, though. Here are a couple of additional thoughts: 1. If the pellets don't work, can you slow down your tumbler in the pre-polish and polish stage so that the rocks slide over each other, rather than flopping? If not, you can try thickening your slurry (you'll have to search here for thickeners, but sugar comes to mind). 2. I realize that you're talking about going backwards when you get to polish, but after you polish, you'll want to burnish with Ivory soap flakes, Ivory bar chips, Borax, Dreft, or some other non-sudsing soap. By all means, keep asking questions. The people here will definitely get you going in the right direction. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress! Chuck |
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theoutsider
starting to shine!
Member since February 2008
Posts: 28
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Post by theoutsider on Apr 14, 2009 0:51:43 GMT -5
Patience is a of the essence. Being active duty United States marine Corps you have to be patient.
Having said that....
I use 60/90 obviously for the coarse grind which works great....The problem is the after effects.
I have gone from a 15 lb tumbler with 60/90 to a 3 lb fro the 120/220 and after...
And Yes I burnish after every stage of the tumbling process. (sometimes forget a burnish for weeks LOL)
I dont know being Active duty United States Marine Corps I expect perfection which wont come easy in Rock Tumbing...Will post pictures of my efforts soon.
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Post by frane on Apr 14, 2009 14:20:16 GMT -5
I am suspecting it could be the amounts in the 3 lb tumbler. Maybe use a little more or less water in there and some cushioning.
Don't worry too much about the burnishing between cycles until you reach the stages just before polish.
I recharge the 60/90 about every 5-7 days. After a few recharges, it is time to rinse and load again. Then judge how much longer they will need to continue in the 60/90, pulling the ones ready to go on. Once you have a batch ready to move on, make sure the barrel is pretty full and if you are having problems with chipping at this step, add in some tile spacers, pellets or keep the rock pretty full and bring the water up a little more than you did before but don't have it any higher than the rocks. Don't really worry about the transfer of grit at this phase. It breaks down. Try running the 120-220 for 2 weeks without recharging. If you are just going to 500 and then the polish, rinse well and continue in the 500 and run for 2 weeks without recharging. Run a burnish (with the cushioning used in the prior grit) Rinse well and repeat the burnishing if needed with the cushioning. If you have a different barrel, use it for polish. If not, wash the barrel out well, place all the stones that are ready to go on, in to the barrel and add plenty of cushioning in. If you have enough stone, that is fine. Make sure you are adding stone, then the water, then the cushioning and what ever grit/polish needed. That keeps you from having too much or too little water and may cut down on chipping.
Jaspers can chip a lot so I do like to use the tile spacers. They have been working better for me than the pellets did and I sometimes mix the two so I can really have a variety of sizes to move around the stones. Just remember that if you are using cushioning in your loads, rinse the loads with the same cushioning and when you go to the next grit, use different cushioning for that grit. I keep mine in separate baggies or plastic containers that are marked for the grit.
I can tell you that if it is going good, you will see some shine after 4 days in polish. Try to continue for 7, if not more and you will have a great shine.
Don't give up and you will get the results you want before long.
Fran
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Apr 15, 2009 3:15:29 GMT -5
Hi Outsider, Keep going you will get there Follow thw RTH 4 stage system (on the home page) Your trying to varnish a table after using rough sawn timber and expecting a good finish !! not possible. Use grits 80 for roughing down change every 6 days or so wash ? some dont but you need to reduce the amount of mud in the barrel do this till you get the shape you want ( I do " Assembly" line system on them ,take out those ready & refill fill with new stuff) 220 Grit for 2 weeks, 500G 10 days 1000 week to 10 days --WASH between stages and be CLINICALY clean this as Chadman above says cant be emphasised enough, Then a Burnish/ wash in Borax and Ivory for 24 to 48 hours YOU will now see them already shining with a good polish on Into CO Polish or whatever polish you use for 1 or 2 weeks (preferably 2 weeks) and this is the result you will get img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/john-edward/E-VibeApril2.jpgJack Yorkshire UK Ps I gave up polishing for 18 month's having the same results as you before I found help on RTH , your not alone press on Jack |
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Apr 16, 2009 10:14:11 GMT -5
OK, I love quotes. One of my favorites is from Thomas Edison when asked if he thought his light bulb was a failure when he was struggling to find an element that would last.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. "
Outsider, hopefully you have found some tips that are helpful. None of us have a perfect batch each time. Most of us tumble so damn much rock by the comparison the ones that don't turn out just get slipped into the "To be tumbled" bucket or in the case of rocks that are just too soft or porous to take a shine they get tossed in the driveway with the rest of the landscape rocks.
Rick
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