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Post by catmandewe on May 29, 2009 16:21:58 GMT -5
There is a new land grab bill coming our way, which will enormously and effectively reduce the number of areas that will be left open for us to rock hound in. The new bill, H.R. 980, would designate 23 million acres of land in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington and Wyoming, as Wilderness. This means each of these 23 million acres would be made permanently off-limits to motorized and mechanized recreation, including off-highway motorcycles, ATVs, 4x4s, snowmobiles and mountain bikes. (Sponsored by a Representative from NY, but only affects Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington, and Wyoming) Go here to sign a petition and have emails and/or letters sent to your representatives and The President on your behalf. www.rallycongress.com/klim/PS-This link is sponsored by Klim, a local clothing manufacturer who specializes in snowmobile clothing. Make yourself heard BEFORE it is too late!!!! Tony
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Post by Michael John on May 29, 2009 17:12:28 GMT -5
Welllll ... wilderness designation isn't always as bad as some make it out to be. Depending on the state, it doesn't always mean that there's no hounding allowed. It just means that you must use established, open roads when traveling in the wilderness areas. So, for collecting areas which can be reached near open roads, you're basically unaffected. As for areas that become no longer easily accessible due to vehicle travel limitations, it's a double-edged sword. You'll have to hike to get to them, but chances are that less people will do that, so those areas will be less picked-over. There IS the option of riding horses, mules, or burros in these areas, though! If you're going to do that, you must check the rules, because you're usually required to bring special animal feed into wilderness areas. You also have to bring plenty of water.
Off topic: I'm currently trying to find someone with mules and a horse trailer to accompany me on a 3 day trek into a remote area of The Mojave, in order to reach an area that's 12 miles (one way) across a mountainous desert area. What I expect to find there will be WELL worth the trip. In the last few days I asked two guys about it, but got pretty much the same reaction ... HELL no! Neither were willing to lend or rent me their mules so that I could go it alone, either. So, if any of you within driving distance of Death Valley (it's not IN Death Valley) have a couple of mules and feel like having an extreme adventure, let me know.
Edit: No need to ask ...yes, I am nuts.
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Post by catmandewe on May 29, 2009 19:12:30 GMT -5
MJ, Sorry to say but you definitely have that wrong! Wilderness designation means NO mechanized vehicles. Does not matter if there is an established road there or not. If they make it wilderness, then there will be NO OPEN ROADS, thats what wilderness means, no roads.
Then the taxpayers will have to pay for some one to go in and erase all traces of man made contact, without the use of mechanized equipment. All those old gold mills in the Frank Church wilderness were removed by mules at considerable tax payer expense. I know................. one of the guys who did alot of it is a good friend of mine. Idaho already has more wilderness area than any other state in the US except for Alaska, really no sense in closing off the rest of it. I am all for saving some wilderness, but we are going way overboard here. Almost all the Owyhee material will be GONE. No one is gonna hike in to where the good stuff is and pack a few hundred pounds out on their back, and I sure wouldn't take my horses or mules in there, the rodeos you will have due to the rattlers and cougars will have you pickin up pack string parts for days.
I have personally hiked our biggest wilderness area from one end to the other. I have also flown in and hiked out, I have also rode in on mules, and yes you have to have weed free feed for any trail animals (which=expensive)
I am sorry to say this, but you are a classic example of the BS propaganda that the greenie side has been shoveling out for years. If this is such a good idea, why is it being proposed by a New York representative and not a representative from any of the affected states? Because no one here wants it!
It is not safe anymore to hike across the wilderness area alone. You just may become part of the landscape, in little piles of wolf doo doo down the trail. While I am on the soapbox, we should reintroduce wolves into New York, too. They used to be there too, ya know.
Sorry, just tired of hearing the same stuff about how its not so bad..............well it is a bunch of BS, and it is my backyard, not yours.
Please help me keep them from locking it up.
Tony
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Post by Michael John on May 29, 2009 23:48:04 GMT -5
Sorry, didn't mean to get ya riled. Guess my understanding of it was wrong then. The feds are doing the same crap in California ... trying to make everything wilderness, regardless what the state and locals say. They take the feds to court over it and always lose. My best guess is that "environmental" lobbyists are filling politicians' pockets in DC. There's really no other logical explaination for it.
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catskillrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by catskillrocks on May 30, 2009 21:57:20 GMT -5
Tony, thanks for the heads up. I just signed the petition plus offered my own remarks. I think that this is a silly bill; I think that is is unfortunate that it is being sponsored by someone from my state (Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D-NY14]); I think also that is too bad that some people think that people who care about the earth/environment (environmentalists?) are most often lumped into the negative image of "tree hugger" or "greenie". I guess I am both, but I am also a thinker.
Think you very much, ;D Don
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snowdog
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by snowdog on May 30, 2009 22:24:58 GMT -5
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Post by catmandewe on May 30, 2009 23:09:33 GMT -5
Hey Don, Thanks for your input and your help. I really consider myself as one who cares about the environment. How many of you pick up trash on your way in and out of an area? I do and lots of my friends do. Responsible management includes way more than just locking up an area. Out here some areas are so remote, that you could not carry enough water to hike into them, which in effect makes them completely unavailable if you must hike in. I have done my share of hiking/backpacking trips, and some places that are proposed to be closed are not even candidates for a back packing trip. If you can't drive close to there, no one will go. To get to the Bruneau jasper claim takes 4-6 hours in a good vehicle and that is if you don't get a flat tire or blow a radiator or break an axle, if we had to hike into there, Bruneau would be virtually non existent. (Same with Morrisonite.) The funny thing is they want to close the Bruneau canyon area because of the bird of prey population, but 4 miles away is a bombing range that they have no intention of closing. The bombs and jets must not bother the birds as much as a pick up truck, I guess. Most people that really get out into the back country around here are very good stewards of the land, of course there are always those few who throw trash out and have no regard for the land that makes it look bad for everyone. I guess I used the wrong terminology in my post above when I referred to the Greenie propaganda and for that I apoligize. There are some responsible stewards that resemble that movement. Maybe a better term would be the environmental nazis? Whatever the term, this is basically a land grab bill and really should be stopped if possible.
Dave, You can surface collect in Wilderness areas, but you may not disturb the soil or dig any thing up. If you see a killer specimen peeking out of the ground, but you must dig it up to get it out, that is a NO NO. If it is sitting on top of the ground you can pick it up. You may use dead fall as tent poles or stakes, but when you are done you must put them back exactly where you found them. Horses and mules may not be tied to trees, they must be high lined using a line tied to 2 trees above the horses heads, there must be a buffer between the line and the trees so as not to disturb the bark, and all feed must be packed in and all waste packed out. When you get into the wilderness there are cabins setup at most trail convergence areas where they have Forest service personnel that stay there. (Someone killed some trees just to write a few tickets?) They are just there to try to find something to write you a ticket for. (By the way, I nor anyone in my group has ever gotten a wilderness ticket) You are not allowed to camp close to the cabins or on any of the airstrips. Sure starting to take the fun out of a great camping trip. But I guess wilderness camping should not be fun then? It should be more like survival camping, thats what we needed the wolves for, camping was becoming too easy without something that wanted to eat us.
Sorry for the rant, but I have just about had it up to my eyeballs with gettin told how and where to live my life by someone who doesn't even live in my state.
Please, everyone who cares, please sign the petition, by signing the petition, they will send emails and/or letters (emails are free, letters cost extra)to your respective representatives, and lets them know what people in their areas think.
Public land should mean Public access, not access for the privileged few.
Thanks for listening........................Tony
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Gem'n I
freely admits to licking rocks
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Post by Gem'n I on May 31, 2009 11:19:10 GMT -5
Tony, I hear your passion and totally agree...Seems to me Congress should have bigger things to worry about than screwing up peoples right to enjoy something that is there to enjoy. Laws create rules for law abiding citizens but many are not well thought out since they seem to favor people who care less about them...criminals!! Public land is what it is...seems to me you start creating laws making it something else destroys the thought of it being public and opens up more problems...like the need for more taxes to hire enforcers...seems like we just add additional burden to the people who respect what is theirs to begin with. People who dont give a rats a$$ will not be concerned because they will do what they want anyway...laws mean very little to them!! Why doesn't Congress consider things that ease the burden on the economy like the banks, credit cards and the automotive fiasco...perhaps we just chose the wrong people to represent us!!! H.R 980 seems like a real waste of time/money that will not fix the real issues that plague our country. You bet I wrote to them...but will they listen....if they do not I will know what to do next time I vote!!!!
Larry
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Post by Woodyrock on Jun 1, 2009 22:12:43 GMT -5
Just signed the petition! How come that New York son of an unwed mother did not include ANY of his state? BTW, I like wolves......great moving targets! Woody
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Post by texaswoodie on Jun 2, 2009 11:07:57 GMT -5
Well, the good folks of the U. S. voted these people into office. I screamed bloody murder at the time and it did no good. If the bill does not pass this time, they will rewrite it to include enough pork that the opposing side will pass it. This is the way it works.
Our way of life is doomed. We loose freedoms every time Congress votes on something. We get poorer and Congress gets richer. I've all but given up.
So how's CHANGE working for you?
Curt
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Post by Michael John on Jun 2, 2009 12:57:18 GMT -5
Ya know, I can see the point of protecting some of the land to keep it reasonably nice for future generations, but for the life of me I can't understand why they're going insanely overboard. Potecting all of that land means that the tax payers have to pay people to protect it! Don't Americans have enough burden already? These elected idiots obviously suffer from cranio-recto inversion.
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
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Post by grayfingers on Jun 4, 2009 19:18:24 GMT -5
Being the conspiracy theorist that I am, I believe it is yet another sign of the times. The Feds are securing the valuable resources as a part of the globalization agenda. The U.N. and the world bankers are calling the shots these days. Few realize that our Constitution has been nullified, superseded by the global elite's plans for the New Order. Our "Public Lands" belong to the "The Socialist State" not the people. Private mining claims will soon be a thing of the past. If HR 875 and S 425 are passed it will be a very short time before we will not be allowed to grow a home garden. They want to control the land, end private ownership, control the water usage and food production as well as the intentional crashing of our economy, so as to ready us for the new global currency. Though some may find these notions laughable, they won't be laughing for long....
Montana – 93,271,040 acres with federal seizure of 25,688,895 acres or 27.5-percent of the land area. Montana is rich in gold, silver and vast, shallow coal deposits along with millions of acres of timber and grazing land.
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DeanW
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Post by DeanW on Jun 4, 2009 23:43:08 GMT -5
During the last go-round of one of these bills I contacted Senator Feinstein's office (one of my "honorable Senators" :barf) with a plea to not support it. I mentioned how it would preclude handicapped people from visiting the areas and make our hobby basically impossible. I knew it was a long shot but I did my duty and did it anyways. Her reply was terse. She said, to paraphrase, "pack animals are allowed, so that is how handicapped can go." No concern for other things I mentioned. Basically a STFU response in my opinion. ![](http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d189/dimebar_probably/Smileys/th_wallbash.gif) . No, of course I didn't vote for her. But apparently plenty of other californians have. Almost makes me not want to try. I just often wonder if/when the sheeple are gonna wake up and realize what they have done to us/themselves.
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Post by Michael John on Jun 5, 2009 1:33:34 GMT -5
At this point in time, I don't think it's so much a matter of most people not knowing that the government is screwing us and have taken absolute control. I think it's a matter of hopelessness and fear right now, like in Germany when Hitler was in control. Well, the world is full of Hitlers now, including here in the USA, it's just that they're more secretive about their dirty deeds. History consistently tells us that people will only tolerate oppression and abuse for so long, then all hell breaks loose. I see that coming very soon.
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