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Post by akansan on Jul 5, 2009 12:35:38 GMT -5
I don't normally like to start political threads, and this isn't a blatant anti-Obama thread, but I'm frustrated reading the news these days. Who does Obama have advising him? In the past week, I've read four different articles where the Obama government was surprised by the magnitude of something. They underestimated the depth of the recession. They hadn't realized exactly what was going on in Iran. They were surprised by the actions in Honduras. They didn't think North Korea would respond in such defiance. Every major event that's happened in the last month (recession article was spurred by the latest jobs report) has been read incorrectly by the Obama administration. I don't know if the guys just an optimist or what, but I certainly hope he changes whomever's advising him before we're surprised when Canada decides to invade us.
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Post by deb193redux on Jul 5, 2009 13:26:09 GMT -5
They underestimated the depth of the recession. They hadn't realized exactly what was going on in Iran. They were surprised by the actions in Honduras. They didn't think North Korea would respond in such defiance. I know you are not a political reactionist, so I will join in when I normally avoid the political. Thanks for the tempered post. I think some of these are not like the other. There is a difference between text and sub text, and frankly, sometimes things need to be packaged for domestic consumption to avoid popularist overreactions. I am willing to believe that the new admin knew the economy was worse than they admitted. First, I think they got the stimulus they could get, and figured they would get more later if needed. Delivering too much bad news up front might have just shut everything down, and the messenger could have been killed. Also, the key word in their message is "inherited" as in Biden's statement "we underestimated just how bad the economy we inherited was" I think they knew exactly what was going on in Iran, but need to keep the diplomatic possibilities open - and that especially means not being perceived on the Iranian street as an imperial power messing in their politics. Even today there was a new critique from major clerics of the current president. Lets let this work itself out. We're in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, and have tenuous diplomatic ties with much of the other elements of the Mid East, and the whole Israel issue is a quagmire. So, some could wish they had offered more vocal support of the protesters, but I don't think we can say they were "surprised". Everyone was surprised by the coup in Honduras. Given the track record of North Korea intensively over-reacting to everything, I do not believe that they failed to understand how strongly NC would react. I think this is an attempt to send the message "you are overreacting" or "this is just an overreaction, and if you calm down we can move forward" Finally, I would be surprised if they were not surprised if Canada invaded us. I would hate to think that we are actively making contingency plans for a Canadian invasion. Would be too paranoid. I hate it that managing political support always requires such careful pharasing. I wish more folks would have more thoughtful discussion instead of just parroting things they hear pundunts say. I don't expect the Obamma admin to not behave like an damin, I just hope they have more vision then many recent admins. So, I guess I think it is important not to assume they are mis-informed or un-informaed, but to consider what is the best posture in the big picture that included foreign and doemstic politics. I seriously doubt they are misinformed, and think it is a mistake ot start form that preimse.
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Post by Michael John on Jul 5, 2009 13:26:13 GMT -5
I think he'd be more in-touch if he'd simply pick-up a few newspapers and read them. Heck, even the twisted media hogwash would give him more understanding than the misinformation which he's obviously being fed.
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Post by akansan on Jul 5, 2009 14:00:49 GMT -5
To be honest, if I hadn't read the four statements in the past week, it wouldn't have hit me the way it did. It's probably more a perception - in the past week, they've left the perception that they are uninformed or that their intelligence failed. One of those articles alone would not have bothered me - I get being surprised by something. ANYONE can be surprised by something. But that I read all four of those articles within a short timespan left the impression that they need new advisors. I chose Canada as my invasion point because it was just too unlikely (unless you Canadians know something we don't!). I was originally going to use Mexico as a more likely launching point of an invasion, but then we'd just get into the immigrant debate again. In each of these cases, a senior admin member - generally Obama or Biden - has been the one to say they were surprised. Maybe they better coordinate their statements a bit better - or think about what perception they're leaving as a whole with their individual statements.
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Post by deb193redux on Jul 5, 2009 14:22:07 GMT -5
yes, I can agree that the perception being generated does not seem too savvy
I just never believe ANY press announcement means exactly what it says
any bets on where each of these issues is headed?
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Post by akansan on Jul 5, 2009 14:43:55 GMT -5
Of all the issues out there, Honduras worries me the most. In some ways, I side with the current government of Honduras. The President of Honduras disobeys a ruling by the Supreme Court and Congress. He proceeds with something that has been deemed unConstitutional. Congress and the Supreme Court remove him from office. Admittedly, it would have been nice if they had done the equivalent of an impeachment first, but perhaps they did. If this really has been brewing for months, they certainly had the time to do so.
Part of me feels the world is ignoring those first actions of Zelaya's. If Obama directly disobeyed a ruling of the Supreme Court and Congress, what would be our action? We'd remove him from office. Essentially, that's what Honduras did. If the police had shown up at his doorstep instead of the military, would that have changed the issue?
What worries me most about this particular situation is Chavez's assertion that he'll help Zelaya take over his government. Honduras is really key in the US's military actions in this hemisphere ever since we shut down Panama. Giving up this base would really hamper our operations here. Yet I don't see any way around it, now. I'd be very surprised if this particular situation isn't resolved without bloodshed.
Iran - we're going to continue to waffle there. Obama wants to be seen as different than Bush in the Mid East, so he'll keep the opportunity for communication open, never quite condemning or encouraging the unrest.
North Korea - we'll join the world in strong displeasure at their actions. Until they test a functioning long range missile, we won't care.
It really comes down to what's actually going to affect us. Obama won't get involved too deeply in ANYTHING unless it directly affects the US. It doesn't matter what that situation might do to our traditional allies and military base hosts - Israel, South Korea, Japan, Honduras. We're out of Iraq no matter what happens in that country now. Afghanistan is shaping up to be probably uglier than Iraq was.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 5, 2009 15:34:53 GMT -5
OK, I'll admit I'm not a fan of Obama but even then, I'd feel more comfortable if his administration was a little more forthcoming and transparent as he promised before elected. I'd like to feel more that they're highly informed and know what they're doing. I'd also be happier if he spent more time learning his job and less on TV in front of the cameras. I've always thought a President should act more like a competent businessman in the business of running the country, not like Hollywood royalty. I'd also like to hear his press secretary answer a question now and then. My major objection to him as a candidate was I thought him inexperienced, overly optimistic, and kind of a believer in an unrealistic, Utopian view of society. I was hoping he'd prove me wrong but I'm not seeing it. I'm in fact, stunned that the confidence shown in him by his followers has not been truly shaken......Mel
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Post by texaswoodie on Jul 5, 2009 16:58:50 GMT -5
But Mel, he wouldn't be a Dem if he didn't live in Fantasy Land.
Ronda You're surprised that he was surprised? That surprises me.
Sorry folks, I'm just not a diplomat or a word person all I can say is what I feel. And what I feel is when this 4 four years is over we better get rid of him or 85% of our wages are going to go to taxes.
Curt
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Post by akansan on Jul 5, 2009 17:46:53 GMT -5
Ronda You're surprised that he was surprised? That surprises me. Curt - I didn't say I was surprised...but that if they were that surprised by recent events they really need new advisors.
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chassroc
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Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Jul 6, 2009 9:10:15 GMT -5
Ah ...the recession...time will tell. He is trying to keep people employed...lesta face it, he inherited a mess and is trying some drastic measures that may or may not work...but seem to be well thought out.
Iran...I like what he is doing...no need to react like the sky is falling everytime an election is alleged to be rigged in another country...We had some of that in our recent past, didn't we?
Honduras...It's good to act surprised when you don't want to be blamed for a military coup that ousts a Commie leaning leader trying to seize control for life( see Castro, Chavez, etc)
North Korea... has been a problem for more than half a century...I don't think anyone is surprised by what they do but no harm in trying different tactics when the ones we used over the past few years didn't work.
We've already got two unpopular wars already and I don't think any of us want to have more at this time. Let's get out of Iraq; concentrate on turning around the mess in Afghanistan, get our boys home safely and strengthen the economy. We dont need to make a mountain out of situations that seem like business as usual. If we had directed the money spent on the wars in the middle east to domestic projects, education and healthcare, instead of gunpowder, we would have a much better economy and stronger borders instead of the mess we're in. A mess that needs to be addressed in strong terms because it is unprecidented in US history. csroc
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