Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish?

crisw
off to a rocking start

Member since July 2009
Posts: 2

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 16, 2009 18:18:08 GMT -5

Quote

Post by crisw on Jul 16, 2009 18:18:08 GMT -5

You can see photos of what I am describing here-picasaweb.google.com/criswallerphotos/RockTumbling#

I picked these stones up from the banks of the Flathead River in Montana. I think they are mostly jasper (please inform me if you have a better idea- I am a newbie!)

I am no expert; I just have a 3 lb. Lortone I have used several times in the past. I ran these on medium grit for a bit over a week, then prepolish for 9 days. They have now been in cerium oxide polish for over a month- and they aren't polishing! The rocks are smooth as can be- water beads up on them after I rinse and dry them, they squeak if I rub a wet finger on them, no sign at all of scratches- but they aren't polished. I have been very careful to clean the rocks and the tumbler thoroughly between grits. I replaced the polish three times. I've cushioned them with plenty of plastic pellets.

Where did I go wrong and what do I do?

I live in an area with extremely hard water; can hard water interfere with the polishing process?

Should I try a different polish?

New barrel?

Burnishing?

Let me know- I have several more batches I'd like to do!

lparker
fully equipped rock polisher

Still doing too much for being retired!

Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 16, 2009 18:42:31 GMT -5

Quote

Post by lparker on Jul 16, 2009 18:42:31 GMT -5

How did the rest of the rocks polish?? Cerium oxide is good for softer rock, maybe get some AlO for a polish for jaspers? I don't think hard water shouldn't make a difference unless you let things dry out, then you might get a rust or calcium deposit on your rocks.

Lee

www.facebook.com/rockdude68
www.rockdudestore.com/store

crisw
off to a rocking start

Member since July 2009
Posts: 2

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 16, 2009 19:26:17 GMT -5

Quote

Post by crisw on Jul 16, 2009 19:26:17 GMT -5

Thanks!

I did almost all of what you're mentioning. I did clean them first and actually did use a toothbrush soap, etc. between steps as well as removing any rocks that looked to have cracks or pits. I don't have multiple barrels- but I will get some! I did clean the barrel very thoroughly.

So a couple more questions.
I was following the Lortone manual, which said to skip the coarse grit step for smooth river rock- should I have done it anyways?

I used the Lortone prepolish- is there a better choice?

What should I do with this batch of rocks? Go back to prepolish? Medium grit? A different polish?

Last Edit: Jul 16, 2009 19:26:51 GMT -5 by crisw

cpdad
driving up their electric bill

Member since February 2006
Posts: 2,989

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 16, 2009 20:55:54 GMT -5

Quote

Post by cpdad on Jul 16, 2009 20:55:54 GMT -5

hmmm....by the pics...those rocks wont polish....looks like the rocks i sometimes use for filler from walmart....also called river rock ;D.....if you think you have a grit problem....just order a kit from the rockshed....its not the perfect method.....buts its purty dern close....and will do the job nicely.

some of the rocks posted were not ready to move on to the next stage....yours are nicely rounded and should have been moved on like you did ;D.....they are just gonna never shine ;D....just the rock not you ;D.

i use a 1 barrel method of diff stages.....although not reccomended ;D....but i gets me shiny rocks ;D

a good friend will bail you out of jail. a true friend will be sitting beside you, saying" damn that was fun"

johnjsgems
gets rocks for Christmas

Member since August 2007
Posts: 6,959

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 16, 2009 22:19:18 GMT -5

Quote

Post by johnjsgems on Jul 16, 2009 22:19:18 GMT -5

I'd have to agree with cpdad. It's the rocks not you. I've tumbled a lot of beach rocks and always with a single drum washed out between steps. Even though the ocean rounded them I always run them in 60/90 for several days to remove any deep scratches. Then on to 120/220, 600 and cerium. They mostly came out great except for the occasional dull green ones that never got more than a satin finish. Tumbling is a funny thing. Quite often the first batches are failures and then the rock gods let up and no matter how you tumble they turn out. There are as many variations as there are tumblers.

John at JS Gems

www.jsgemslapidary.com

chassroc Cave Dweller Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals Member since January 2005 Posts: 3,586	Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 17, 2009 8:09:04 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by chassroc on Jul 17, 2009 8:09:04 GMT -5 They look like a form of sandstone to me...sandstone will not tumble polish csroc

10thumbs spending too much on rocks I want to be reincarnated as a dog. Member since March 2009 Posts: 480	Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 17, 2009 9:26:11 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 10thumbs on Jul 17, 2009 9:26:11 GMT -5 My kids pick up a ton of beach rocks for me. The general rule of thumb is if they don't look interesting when they're wet, throw them back.
	Please take my poll in the Lapidary tips section: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=tips&action=display&thread=32030&page=1

Hard Rock Cafe
driving up their electric bill

Rock tumbling is harder than it looks. Mohs definitely.

Member since April 2008
Posts: 2,735

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 17, 2009 9:31:07 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Jul 17, 2009 9:31:07 GMT -5

I concur with the "it's the rocks" opinion.

FWIW: I never pre-wash, pre-soak, or scrub my rocks. In my opinion, that's what the rough grind is for. If they're muddy, I'll spray them off, but that's it.

Because I use a vibe, I don't concern myself with meticulous cleaning between stages. A quick wash is all. The reason is that the grit breaks down very quickly in a vibe, so there isn't likely anything left to contaminate later stages. Even if there is a little, it will be broken down in no time.

Chuck

Some rocks aspire to greatness; others are destined to be grit carriers.

frane
misunderstood rock expert

Member since July 2008
Posts: 11,015

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 17, 2009 14:55:55 GMT -5

Quote

Post by frane on Jul 17, 2009 14:55:55 GMT -5

they kind of look like a sandstone variety to me and just may be too soft to polish. You might want to set them aside for awhile and then when you have more soft stones, add them together. Sometimes a whole batch of the softer stuff will shine with cerium but it is still questionable.
Good luck!
Fran

connrock
still telling self it's just a hobby

Ranger,,,My little buddy

Member since July 2004
Posts: 4,374

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 18, 2009 6:52:07 GMT -5

Quote

Post by connrock on Jul 18, 2009 6:52:07 GMT -5

I agree about the rocks being too soft.You can check any rock for tumble quality hardness by scratching them with the sharp edge of a piece of quartz.agate or jasper.

If they scratch,,toss them back,,,

If they don't scratch,,,,,,,,,,toss them in the tumbler.

Make sure the "scratch" IS a scratch and not just a white line.

Another point is that it doesn't look like you have enough small rocks in the load.

A proper load will consist of different size rocks with AT LEAST 1/3 of them being small rocks.With a 3 lb tumbler you will HAVE to sacrifice room in the barrel for the small rocks and not have as many bigger rocks as you would like.

Lets try to make this simple,,,,,

The whole idea of tumbling is to have as much surface contact between the rocks as they tumble.

If you have 3 big rocks in the barrel only a very small portion of each rock will make contact with the others as they tumble.

If you had the same barrel 3/4 full of pea size rocks you would have MUCH more contact between each rock.

A proper load is somewhere in between these 2 examples.

This holds true for both a rotary and vibe.

Try to think,,,,"small barrel= small rocks"
Big barrel = bigger rocks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You can only put 1-2 plum size rocks in a 3lb barrel per load.

You can only put 1-2 baseball size rocks in a 15lb barrel per load.

Don't knock the small rocks either.They come out just as good as their big brothers and can be displayed in small glass bottles.

connrock

Beacon Falls,CT

MyNewHobby
driving up their electric bill

Member since January 2009
Posts: 2,282

Help for a newbie! Why won't these polish? Jul 19, 2009 12:57:40 GMT -5

Quote

Post by MyNewHobby on Jul 19, 2009 12:57:40 GMT -5

Hi Kids!!

I must be very basic or simplistic about my tumbling methods in my Lortone 33B.

One thing I have always done since I started is keep a detailed log of everything you do for a batch.

The information I write down is:

Batch#
Date
Time
Material - try to be as descriptive as possibly ... this will help later when you are looking for information on specific rocks.
Amount of grit used
Amount of cushioning used
Amount of water used
Make special notes on different behaviors you notice from batch to batch and different rock to rock.

I am attaching the link of my spreadsheet through gmail if you guys want to use it.

spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tImCq17nr5DzW9wH2Xl52dA&hl=en

This is my recipe for the rotary:

Soft material wise ...

Make sure your rough is the same mohs (different mohs hardness will damage a portion of your batch)
Make sure your rough is not all the same size and shape
Rinse your rocks off well and take a little scrub brush if you find there is some organic material still in the rocks. Organic material is what can make a batch gassy. I have never had to check or burp my barrels.
Load your barrel, depending on what you have, 3/4-2/3 full
Add cushioning (plastic pellets have worked fine for me to date)
Add grit (I have found that using about or a little more of 2 tablespoons of 60/90)
Add water to about 1/2"-3/4" above the rocks
Replace lid (make sure you seat the lid properly or you will have problems)
Put barrel in the rotary and forget about it for 2-3 days and then check it
Only repeat 60/90 if your rocks are still very raw and then use only 2 tablespoons of the 60/90.
When I check the barrel at intervals, I always take a little scrubber sponge and gently wipe off the lid and the inside of the barrel.
Unlike vibes, you do not have the embedding of grit, so it is easier to clean your barrel.

I have never burnished in my rotary and if you are putting the lid on properly, you should not have to check your barrel everyday only at the recharge stage.

Harder material wise ...

Make sure your rough is the same mohs (different mohs hardness will damage a portion of your batch)
Make sure your rough is not all the same size and shape
Rinse your rocks off well and take a little scrub brush if you find there is some organic material still in the rocks. Organic material is what can make a batch gassy. I have never had to check or burp my barrels.
Load your barrel, depending on what you have, 3/4-2/3 full
Add cushioning (plastic pellets have worked fine for me to date)
Add grit (I have found that using about 3 tablespoons of 60/90 is best)
Add water to about 1/2"-3/4" above the rocks
Replace lid (make sure you seat the lid properly or you will have problems)
Put barrel in the rotary and forget about it for 5-7 days days and then check it (I check my barrels every Saturday).
Only repeat 60/90 if your rocks are still very raw and then use the same amount, 3 tablespoons of the 60/90. With harder material you will need to run your batch again in 60/90 and let it go for a week.
When I check the barrel at intervals, I always take a little scrubber sponge and gently wipe/scrub off the lid and the inside of the barrel.
Unlike vibes, you do not have the embedding of grit, so it is easier to clean your barrel.

I have never burnished in my rotary and if you are putting the lid on properly, you should not have to check your barrel everyday only at the recharge stage.

You can stare at a rock for hours and never see the same thing twice.