cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 19, 2009 10:48:11 GMT -5
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions about how to polish quartz crystal to a glass like finish after the rough cutting and medium polish were attained on the flat lap I use. I've been using cerium oxide powder, which works fine on my opals, but when polishing a much harder material like quartz crystal, I've found that it definitely does not yield the same results at all. When polishing opal, it can be mixed as a slurry, kinda the consistency of a thin "soft serve", but I've noticed that when using the same consistency when attempting to polish quartz, it basically has NO effect, and the only way I can get it to really "do" anything to polish the quartz is mixing it SO dry, that it is barely wet at all, and putting it on the leather wheel, until it actually get HOT to the touch! Even when doing this, for a VERY long time, the cerium does not "really" yield the results I would expect it to, although it "does" somewhat polish it to some extent, just not the glass like finish I need it to have. The other issue when polishing quartz crystals like this, is that the cerium tends to seep into the crevices and inclusions in the quartz crystal, sometimes resulting in a very UGLY pink gross blotch "inside" the crystal, which you CANNOT remove in any way, I've tried MANY things to do this, including soaking the stone in oil, or water first, to try to "seal" the inclusions prior to polishing, so the cerium would not seep into them, but it still does anyhow. I even tried heating the stone, almost boiling them in oil, to try to force the oil into the inclusions to seal them, but that didn't work either, and sometimes resulted in the stone breaking, or cracking badly. So, does anyone have either a suggestion on how to use cerium oxide "better" so that it does polish quartz crystals effectively, and not seep into the inclusions, or can someone please suggest a better solution or method to polish the quartz crystals with a nice glass like finishing polish? Your help would be GREATLY appreciated!! Thanks, Chris  |
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waxman
starting to shine!
Opal & diamond ring, handcrafted by Waxman.
Member since June 2009
Posts: 38
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Post by waxman on Jul 20, 2009 5:43:18 GMT -5
Try Tin Oxide on a leather lap, not too wet, when it starts to grab that's when you get the best polishing action, it takes a bit of practice but it works for me.
The polish will still get into any inclusions.
Hope that helps, Ivan.
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 20, 2009 12:17:13 GMT -5
OK...Question...
What do you consider a "medium polish" ?
Answers...
Cerium oxide polishes (grinds) at such a minute level that you are actually polishing the previous scratches rather than removing them.
You need to polish out to 8000-14000 before using cerium oxide, to remove scratches as these are what make your final product look dull (by refracting light rather than reflecting it). This actually goes for most materials too, the better your final grind, the better your final polish.
Opal, being a softer material, will look like it polishes up with less steps but the polishing pad actually works as a medium.
Use Opticon (follow directions) to seal inclusions and prevent seepage of polishing compounds.
Just remember that rock polishing is an "exact" science that is open to interpretation.
Dr Joe
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 20, 2009 15:13:54 GMT -5
Thanks Uvan and Dr Joe, I really appreciate all your advice. I've never used tin oxide actually, does it work well for most other things as well? Where can it be obtained? I got the cerium oxide at a local speedy auto glass, it was about $14 for a pound container full of it. There isn't a local lapidary supply house here in this city. I've been actually only polishig my quartz crystals down to a 2000 grit or so before attempting to "finish polish" it, that seems to work well for opals, so I assumed it would also work well for quartz crystals, but I now understand exactly what you mean about the polishing, thanks. I guess I need to get myself some fine polishing disks for my flat lap, what should I use to polish that fine a grit, should I diamond powder charge wheel of some kind, or use a manufactured 8000-14000 diamond disk? I forgot about opticon, that's a great suggestion! If it works to fracture fill a gemstone, of course it would work on a quartz crystal, duh! Thanks again for your advice! Chris |
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 21, 2009 9:32:28 GMT -5
I'd go with manufactured diamond pads or disks, they have a more even consistency and cut faster because of this.
Diamond paste and leather (etc) pads take alot of getting used to, since no matter how hard you try, you can never get an even coating because of the inconsistency of the pads surface.
Note "ALWAYS" true up a new dick with an flat agate slab to look for any high spots on the disk that could cause deep scratches in your quartz.
Ok, now lets see some of your work!!!!! PLEASE! ;D
Dr Joe
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 21, 2009 12:21:48 GMT -5
Hi Joe, here is a picture of a rose quartz and sterling silver hammer I created for a customer, an odd request, but she wanted it as a gift for her daughter who was graduating, and told her mother she was "hammering away" at her course material, so her mother wanted to give her a "hammer" as a reward for doing so...lol. I hand forged all the silver you see from a melted down 1976 Canada olympic .925 sterling silver $5 peice, and hand carved the hammer with a diamond saw blade on my flat lap. The hammer is in 2 pieces, they fit together like a real hammer head and a wodden handle would, and are joined together via the silver fittings, and jewellers epoxy. Hope you like it ! Chris    Here is a India star ruby I hand cut and polished, then wrapped in sterling silver wire.  |
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 21, 2009 15:14:45 GMT -5
You do amazing work. Cerium is generally considered to be 50,000 grit equivalent. It is a great polish for quartz based materials, glass and others. Like any polish you will see scratches/defects better after polishing. The standard cerium peach color is hard to hide also. Tin oxide is getting really expensive but works on a wider range of materials. In my opinion it will be replaced with aluminum in the .3-.5 micron range as it costs less and works just as well or better. There is also a "super cerium" or French cerium that is white and said to polish pretty much anything. Super price also. If you have polish in the quartz then the diamond compound would be better as DrJo said. If you are at 2000 grit you could probably go to 8,000, 14,000 and 50,000 grit. By the way, if you have scratches that show after polish you need to go back and sand them out if possible.
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 21, 2009 19:24:59 GMT -5
Ok, once you get past the weird factor of the hammer... it's pretty cool! Very nice work on an odd shaped piece. The wrap shows a whole different world too.
Dr Joe
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 23, 2009 8:18:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliments johnjsgems and Dr Joe! It's nice when someone appreciates what you do, and lets you know, I would "also" appreciate it if someone told me something I made sucks as well, honesty is something I respect, one must look within him/her self in order to have personal growth, and improvement. The hammer is kinda weird, funny, I ended up actually making that customer 4 different hammers in total, all varying sizes, guess she really has a hammer fetish....lol. Alot of what I do there days is pretty much silversmithing work, but that's only because i don't yet have any "factory made" proper polishing disks for my flat lap that I built yet. It takesme about 10 times longer to do anything with the "homemade" disks that I made with epoxy and polishing powder (which is NOT diamond powder!) and the either wet sandpaper with spray adhesive, or grinding stones meant for metal most likely that I currently am using in the meantime. What I REALLY need are those fine polish diamond disks you are recommending, when I can "afford" it, I'll most likely obtain a decent range of them from Rocklady, as I have not seen them cheaper anywhere else. I have no problem preshaping with the tile saw sintered diamond blades (but I also REALLY need proper lapidary sintered diamond blades, the tile saw ones are 2mm thick, and chip the quartz to heck) and rouch polishing the stones I cut and cab with the various disks and wheels I have, it's the "fine" polish that I need the proper disks for, thus I have "tons" of unfinished, preshaped stones awaiting the final touches! I've been "muddling through" things with what I have, but it's time to get serious, as it's very time consuming and limits my results to mediocre with what i'm using curently, I figure if I can turn out what I do with the homemade stuff I'm using, I'll hopefully be able to turn out some decent professional looking quality stones once I obtain the proper materials to do the job. If anyone knows of any cheap deals on polishing disks for my flat lap, please let me know! Thanks again! Chris |
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 23, 2009 9:33:52 GMT -5
When you mentioned flat lap I assumed you were using an Ameritool, High Tech, or Inland diamond unit. There are many sources for 6" and 8" laps for these and faceting machines with 1/2" arbors. What size is your lap unit?
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 23, 2009 10:07:20 GMT -5
Make a miniature vacuum cleaner and we'll tell you if it sux ;D Honesty is not all it's cracked up to be... Just ask your Mother if she's put on a little weight and see how your next birthday cake tastes  Dr Joe . |
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 23, 2009 10:43:57 GMT -5
Hahaha.....funny Dr Joe I seriously DO take criticism absolutely fine. It's how we all learn. I can honestly say I don't have an arrogant bone in my body, I grew out of that years ago! My flat lap is home built, I posted pics of it here when I was first building it, and just started cutting and polishing. Purchasing the proper disks have limited me in my abilities thus far, so once I DO finally get some, I suspect my learning curve will once again take off, I've hit the ceiling of what I can learn with what I have to use right now I think. I have adapters for the arbours, I think it's 1/2 inch as it sits, but I can accommodate larger holes in disks if necessary. It can actually take up to a 16" disk, it's pretty big, but I usually just have a 6" or an 8" disk in it at any one time, they work fine, and give me a little "grabbing room" for when I drop something, or when the disk grabs the stone and flings it off to the side...lol. You can usually tell when I've been polishing whe the tips of my fingers are ground off and bleeding, I have raynauds disease, and can't feel my fingers at the best of times, so if I'm not polishing something on a dop stick, you can tell, all of a sudden my stones start looking kinda "reddish", then I realize I'm leaking all over the place.....hehe. Thanks Dr Joe and johnjsgems! Chris |
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