rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on May 26, 2010 13:23:32 GMT -5
WHAAAAA! I just lost my multi paragraph super detailed intro/question post to a numb thumb click on the x  ack. simplified version: Any advice on tumbling a load of various serpentines/ or insight to tumbling very soft/variable stones? I'm talking from 4-7 mohs in a vibe? should I meticulously test each one for hardness, or just toss 'em all in and pick out the ones with excessive wear? I have read BikerRandy's method and it looks awesome and simple. I have heard Vibes are more amenable to variations in hardness but how amenable? Any thoughts much appreciated. I'll probably make a new intro post in a day or two, I love this site, it's my new favorite ;D {edit} I have changed the title from "tumbling Serpentenites?" to "tumbling very soft stones" in hopes of getting more pertinent info. The stones seem to progress rapidly. I'm thinking of going to pre-polish soon, maybe this after noon. I'm also thinking of media for the polishing stage (pre-polish as well?) but I have no plastic beads so I was thinking of using cut up milk/water jugs? |
|
rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
|
Post by rockdewd on May 26, 2010 14:09:09 GMT -5
If you mix serpentine with rocks higher on the MOHS scale (harder) then the serpentine will take most of the wear and should be removed from the barrel when they are ready so they don't just grind away to nothing while the harder rocks are shaping. Then add the serpentine back when going to finer grades and polish. This is where a multi-barrel tumbler comes in handy. One barrel for rough tumbling (60/90 grit) and one for the finer grits and polish.
If you have enough serpentine for a barrel then it would probably be better to tumble it has a batch.
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on May 26, 2010 15:01:02 GMT -5
Hmmm, yes that makes sense! I guess I'll have to try it and see how it goes. Thanks Rockdewd!
I'll try to post pics when I get some results.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,503
|
Post by Sabre52 on May 26, 2010 19:15:21 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me but I find rocks in the serpentine group very difficult to tumble period. Rocks in this group are often of mixed hardness in the same stone and so there can be a lot of pitting, undercutting and onion skinning. I try to reserve those materials for the cabbing wheels and they're still often difficult to work.....Mel
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on May 26, 2010 23:49:25 GMT -5
Wow, well I guess I'm all in, I put nearly a season worth of pebbles into a batch this afternoon, and yeah its sticky. I took a bunch out and added more water and fresh stones to thin the mix. I'm afraid to leave it until morning for fear of it locking up in the wee hours and making dents in the stones before I can get to it. *sigh*
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on May 27, 2010 10:14:07 GMT -5
Well it locked up overnight but it has made good progress and no harm done. I need to come up with a good "rinse out procedure" as I found it was not as easy as I had hoped hehe. Some of the serpentine is soft and makes a terrible mess of goop in short order so I have it running now with much less 220 grit, about 1~2 tsp, and about the same of 400 grit. Strange thing: I took one piece to a worn 1200 nova wheel and it shined right up directly after the 220 run! So I'm gonna rinse it out this evening, burnish them or maybe polish them overnight and see what up. This is deeply experimental as A) it's my first time vibe tumbling anything B)the serpentine is ridiculously variable and C) the stones have made so much progress over night that it seems the time table on soft stones like these must be shorter by at least a factor of 2.
Time will tell, and thanks for all the input!
|
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on May 27, 2010 16:30:15 GMT -5
Soft stones will tumble very quickly. The trick will be getting a nice polish in the tumbler.
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on May 27, 2010 17:46:09 GMT -5
Straight up John, the action really seemed to be quick compared to what people were saying even about vibe tumblers. I had to rinse and change the grit twice in less than 24 hours, but I jumped straight to polish after as they were about as rounded as I wanted them. They seemed to progress to pre polish directly from 220/400 ! I have them in now with about 1/3 to 3/8 plastic beads and some Tin oxide! fingers crossed! I'll post some pics if they come up polished as they are stunning when wet!
|
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on May 27, 2010 20:43:07 GMT -5
Please do post pictures. I'll be collecting in Jade Cove area next month so can get mountains of serpentine. If you were doing hard rocks and ran the first step and they were "rounded enough" and advanced to polish you would at best get shiny scratched rocks. Each step after first step removes scratches from previous steps. Your serpentine batch will be interesting to follow.
|
|
|
|
Post by deb193redux on May 27, 2010 22:09:56 GMT -5
usually the softer the stone the more grit steps used. Of course if it is too soft I can see why skipping some of the medium grits conserve size.
You may need pre-polish (1000g), polish (14000-25000g), and super-pilish (50000-100000g)
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on May 28, 2010 21:15:05 GMT -5
mmm deb193redux, That sounds interesting. you're right I was trying to conserve size. I may need to invest in some of those grits. I only have low grit I guess 400 was my max. I also have some tripoli, levigated alumina, and chrome oxide. I thought I had at least some 600 and 1000, and maybe I do but I can't find it. I went with the chrome oxide because I remember reading in an old lap journal chrome oxide was good for jade and some of our serpentine is "wicked hard". I mentioned it in the first post but the variability of hardness in this stuff is possibly an obstacle. I thought I would go for the polish because I never imagined the vibe rounding them so fast from what people were saying about times. I have halted them and got one really shiny stone and as John said a bunch of shiny stones with lots of scratches. I have to get off but I'll be back monday.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roller on May 28, 2010 21:39:58 GMT -5
nice to meet u rock .... unfortunately i can add no advice on tumbling because as of just now i consider myself a horrible tumbler ...just wanted to say hello ...Greg
|
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on May 28, 2010 21:48:00 GMT -5
So follow the steps but for less time perhaps. Tripoli is a great prepolish. You probably need to run the 220 and 400 separately (unless I'm confused it sounded like you mixed them). A 500F (or 600) would be good followed by the tripoli and then polish. The levigated alumina is likely also a prepolish. If the chrome oxide worked stay with it. GyRoc markets a blended polish that is pale green and is supposed to handle everything. I asked if it was chrome oxide and aluminum and was told yes plus another ingredient. I'd try mixing chrome with tin or submicron (.3 micron or finer) if the chrome doesn't polish all the soft materials.
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on Jun 2, 2010 11:20:50 GMT -5
I'm back! Over the weekend, between work and sleep, I took a break from tumbling and ground a 1 3/4 in. sphere from nice white quartz from my road. Its my second sphere, and I already gave it away to a friend who's moving out west, or I would've posted pictures.
You're right John I mixed them, being a noob. I may take the serpentines back to 400 for a half day or so, and then I like the sound of tripoli as it's a bit softer itself than some of the other compounds. I did find some 500 grit so maybe 500, tripoli, then "polish". That gyroc polish sounds nice tho, I'm becoming indecisive as there are so many options. Before I do anymore tumbling I want to post pictures of how they are now, so I think that's my current project (parallel with my bead mill setup, shhh) because I think they are really nice as is.
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on Jun 2, 2010 14:12:04 GMT -5
|
|
rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
|
Post by rock on Jun 10, 2010 13:03:43 GMT -5
I have just received a fresh bowl for my TV-10 to be used for polishing exclusively. I have also been suggested to try burnishing them in ivory and borax as a post-pre-polish. This sounds safe, but I'm thinking 6 hrs burnish max then either more tin oxide ( I thought I had chrome oxide which I had wanted to use but it's tin oxide I have, and it did put a nice finish on the serpentine) or maybe some "mirror polish" which is a strange gel formula I suspect has some 100000 diamond in it. As I consider the serpentines fate I'm satisfying my tumbling crave by doing a batch of local quartz and thereby learning what a bad idea trying to tumble it is hehe  Although my long term goal is to treat some of it with desertdwellers stabilizing sodiumsilicate/ vitamin-C concoction, and that may solve the chipping problem I had been warned about. This is how all noobs must learn. I just hope the curve levels out before I run out of rocks. As I have Tons, there is still hope. ~rock |
|
ack. 
Although my long term goal is to treat some of it with desertdwellers stabilizing sodiumsilicate/ vitamin-C concoction, and that may solve the chipping problem I had been warned about. This is how all noobs must learn. I just hope the curve levels out before I run out of rocks. As I have Tons, there is still hope.
