dmharrisn
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2010
Posts: 14
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Post by dmharrisn on Jun 19, 2010 22:12:22 GMT -5
We did everything you told us, why, why did we fail again? 7 days in the polish and smooth and beautiful wet, dull dry. Longer in the polish? time for burnish? It is mostly amethyst, quartz, some agates and tiger eye, red jasper....all same hardness, My 9 year old is getting discouraged...so am I.....
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Post by susand24224 on Jun 19, 2010 23:06:34 GMT -5
You should be getting at least some polish right now, even if it needs longer. What kind of polish are you using?
Do you have a variety of sizes of rocks?
How much water?
Were you super careful to clean everything?
Even if there is a problem with 2, 3 or 4, I would expect at least some signs of polish right now, even if not a good overall polish. But please, give a bit more detail.
Susan
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Post by connrock on Jun 20, 2010 6:56:16 GMT -5
Hi,,, As Susan said,,,we need more info,,,,
It can be a number of things that's causing you to have problems but in time we can iron things out for you.
I know your 9 year old is getting a little frustrated and may even be loosing interest so we'll try our best to help.
If you can supply a few "clear" photo's it may help as well.
It's not easy to help with a problem using a key board and I know it's not easy to explain a problem either but it's all we have so,,,,,,,
I will say that we've been doing pretty darn good at helping though and I doubt if you can find a more knowledgeable group anywhere so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Give some more info and off we goooooo!!
connrock
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Post by tanyafrench on Jun 20, 2010 16:49:07 GMT -5
Hi, I had the same problem. It was some grit I purchased on ebay (no name) anyway my son and I decided the I needed better polishing compound. I went to www.therockshed.com and purchased polishing compound from them. It has worked much better and she will be greatly rewarded with the finished product. Also are you using pellets in the polishing step? If not get some of them as well. Good Luck, Tanya
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revco
starting to spend too much on rocks
Another Victim Of The Rockcycle
Member since February 2010
Posts: 162
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Post by revco on Jun 20, 2010 18:09:26 GMT -5
More info would definitely be helpful. Here's some ideas of things you could try, but without more detail, it's difficult to pinpoint your issue:
* Make sure you're using a high grade polish * Try more plastic pellets (e.g. 1/2 rocks, rest pellets) * Make sure you use new pellets in polish * Don't reuse pellets in finer stages * Be very clean in the polish stage! NO contamination! * Use a different barrel for polish * Burnish before AND after polish! * Introduce a higher grade pre-polish (e.g. 1000AO) * Two weeks in 120/220 stage * Two weeks in polish stage * Make sure your rocks are smooth out of rough!
Those are the big ones, at least that come off the top of my head. Pictures and more details would be immensely helpful!
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dmharrisn
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2010
Posts: 14
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Post by dmharrisn on Jun 20, 2010 22:33:50 GMT -5
Ok, yes I think it is starting to polish some, they look almost there, but not shiny. We are using cerium oxide? (Is that right? I am too lazy to go look at the bag.) _ We did very, very careful cleaning between stages, using new pellets at each stage, but I wonder if we have enough water? I added a bit more, it seemed pretty thick. So maybe longer? Should I re-charge it? or will the polish keep working? There were a few rocks with some slight cracks, but we cleaned them out very carefully with a toothbrush first. Would this make a difference? As for burnish, what do you recommend? I have also seen it suggested to throw some borax in with the polish. Any thoughts on that? We have gotten all of out grit, polish and pellets at a reputable store that does a huge business, so I would think it is high quality. Any thing else?
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Post by connrock on Jun 21, 2010 5:07:50 GMT -5
For starters cerium oxide isn't the best polish in the world for what you're doing.Tin oxide or Aluminum oxide will give you a much better shine on your rocks.
A GOOD wash with a powdered laundry soap (like DREFT)and or BORAX before polish stage is a must especially if you have cracks and or fractures in your rocks. You do this in a barrel with lots of plastic pellets and lots of water.
This will also help to clean out the barrel if you are using the same one for the entire process.It is strongly recommended to have a separate barrel solely dedicated for the polish stage though.
I doubt very seriously if you will get a good shine using cerium oxide.
Also,you say that your load seems thick.This should not be the case in polish stage.
One thing here before I forget,,,,,Polish does NOT break down like grit does so re-charging usually isn't necessary unless you think you have contamination of some sort.
In my opinion I think you have done everything correct except using cerium oxide.
connrock
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revco
starting to spend too much on rocks
Another Victim Of The Rockcycle
Member since February 2010
Posts: 162
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Post by revco on Jun 21, 2010 9:42:14 GMT -5
I have to disagree with Connrock about CO. I think it's a fine polish and, as long as it was purchased through a reputable source, it should be fine. I use AO and CO and get great shine when I use CO, especially on the types of rocks that are mentioned here. People have different experiences, so that's probably part of it.
Burnish is a must, must, must! Like Conrock said, 1.5-2tbls per 3lb of rock using borax or dreft for 2-4 hours before and after polish is a good start. The before is to get 'em nice and clean and the after is to remove the polish that tends to set as a hard film.
Also, consider polishing for two weeks period. It's a stage that shouldn't be rushed and I've found that waiting that extra week often times eliminates partial shines and less than desirable results. You also only need to use about 1.5tbls of polish per lb of rock.
Good luck!
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Post by deb193redux on Jun 21, 2010 19:44:39 GMT -5
Time for pictures. Key questions are 1) the range of sizes, 2) if the rocks were ready to move out of course, 3) is the amount of water right.
Description only goes so far and a pic is worht 1000 words.
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jrtrio
has rocks in the head
With10 tumblers tumbling the sound is so delicious!Send me more of those little red fellas, please?
Member since February 2006
Posts: 535
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Post by jrtrio on Jun 22, 2010 16:13:45 GMT -5
Always wash between stages is a good idea, having dedicated barrels for each stage is another. I usually don't tumble cracked stones past the second stage it's just too easy for grit to hide inside and ruin the next stage. I'll collect them until I have enough for a full load and start from stage 1. Eventually you'll either get rid of the blemishes or the cracks will break all the way the rough side will tumble smooth. But, once you find the right combination of washing, using borax or Ivory Snow is a good bet, finding the right polish, getting rid of cracked and fractured stones early in the process, and using the plastic beads (which you can find at most hobby stores like Michaels, AC Moore etc for real cheap) you will start to turn out some beautiful stones. But, I've found that spending the extra money on separate barrels for each stage is a plus in turning out stones that are polished so well that they slip out of your fingers when you try to show them off! And I use 3 different types of tumblers from the little red "toys" (don't get me started), the Smithsonian 1lb, and the Thumlers 3lb tumbler, using a different barrel for each stage has been the answer for me. I can get that "wet" look with each one just by taking the extra time with the sorting out cracked stones, "washing" after each stage (I just run a load with the borax and Snowy for twenty four hours then rinse before going on to the next stage). I also keep a "log" for each tumbler and each load stating what type of stone, grit, length of tumble etc so when I get a batch of stone that turns out super I know what to look for during the process. Plus it helps me with what I look for when out rock hunting, or when buying batches of rock from people here, at shows, or Rock shops online, and yes the "Shed" is my "go to" place to buy from. Remember to have fun and try not to get to the point where tumbling seems like "work" and not a hobby. If that happens you need to stop for a while and remember why you started in the first place. I love the fact that you put a rock in and it looks one way and when you're finished it looks totally different. Amazing what you can turn out.
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slabcabber
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2010
Posts: 590
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Post by slabcabber on Jun 22, 2010 22:30:36 GMT -5
Well I am new to the tumbling part myself and I tried a lot of tumblers and lot of polishes. I have found that the length of time it takes... Is a lot to do with the tumbler you use as well as the polish. I dont know what kind of tumbler your using but that will have a lot to do with it. I am trying to become a dealer for the company that I got mine from. I use graded grit but I am told that dont matter but I dont know. when im out of graded I am going to try the ungraded so that way I will know for sure. There is lot of great info on this site and lot of different way from lot of different people. I wish you all the luck with your rocks.If I can help you in anyway please drop me a PM. Mark
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 22, 2010 23:00:13 GMT -5
Those rocks should have a dull or satin shine or close to it after the last grit step (500F or 600). You may need more prep work before polish. A tripoli or 1000 aluminum oxide prepolish may speed up the polish but would not be mandatory. They should polish up fine with cerium. Make sure drum isn't underloaded which will cause the rocks to beat each other up instead of polishing. A not real common but not unheard of problem is using hard water with polish. It can leavea film on the rocks. If that is a possibility try using distilled water in the polish run.
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tigereyes
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2010
Posts: 59
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Post by tigereyes on Oct 5, 2010 4:03:42 GMT -5
Contamination, it's a bad word but an easy fix, make SURE your polishing barrell is 100% clean make SURE your tumbling beads are 100% clean, make SURE there is absolutely no grit or sand or anything in there that may dull your gems during the polish stage and you will get POLISHED stones, if of course you have done everything else right. Clean clean clean!
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Post by Toad on Oct 5, 2010 7:33:03 GMT -5
Did anyone mention plastic bead contamination? If you're using the same beads from previous stages in the polish phase, this could keep your batch from polishing. Sorry if this is a repeat - too tired to read every word right now...
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Oct 5, 2010 12:16:38 GMT -5
I can't add much to what everyone else has already said, except that I get a good polish on hard rocks (like yours) with cerium oxide. BUT, it really helps to add a pre-polish step with AO 800 or 1000. That was a key for me to move from the stage you're at to a shiny polish.
Hope that helps! Chuck
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Oct 6, 2010 14:08:24 GMT -5
We've had about a half-dozen people contact us in the last ten or so years about the same problem. Most were sent our way by people who have seen our polishing result. Our fix is to run a soap burnish run after polish. We mix cheap, dry, laundry soap with water to about a pancake batter consistency, and fill to just cover the rocks. Our padding preference is leather scraps, cut to 1"-1 1/2" dimension, and about 20% of the rock load. We run this for 2 weeks. Can't promise success, but it works here. good luck.
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