cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Aug 23, 2010 21:40:49 GMT -5
Thanks Dr Joe!
Like I said, I still have alot left to do, like build the aluminum guard over the bearings, and of course replace the shaft "if" arrives that is, I'm still crossing my fingers on that one! If not, I can still at least use it with 2 wheels for now with the little shaft that I have.
I also have 20 feet of the soft round shaped 3/8" solid Urethane belting on the way, so I'm gonna yank that V-belt off of there and replace it with the urethane belting, when I spoke to the rep for the belting on the phone, he advised me that it is great stuff because you can make ANY length you like with it, and it is much quieter in operation than the V-belting, as well as you can get away with having a motor totally misaligned, and it will still run just fine, as that belting is actually used in some applications where the 2 pulleys are at almost right angles to one another, and the belt has a total twist in it!
I'm all for something that is easier, cheaper, quieter, and less hassle to set up that's for sure!
Now if only "I" were "purty"...LOL
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 3, 2010 18:42:09 GMT -5
Oddly, I'm STILL getting heat.
I'm "pretty" sure that the belt is somehow heating up the pulley that is on the shaft between the two bearings.
I've injected the appropriate amount of grease into the bearings with the grease gun (one shot) and therefore it shouldn't be the bearings heating up.
When i run it for about 30 seconds, and then turn it off, the pulley is very warm, and therefore, so is the shaft it is connected to a bit, but the bearings are not, on either the inside side or the outside side of the bearings.
If I run it a bit longer, the bearing starts to get warm, but only on the inside part on each bearing, the side that is pointing inwards towards the pulley with the belt on it, the outside side of the bearings are still cool.
If I run it for about 2 minutes more, I can feel the outside of the bearings getting warm, and the inside of the bearings are very warm, (the sides that are pointing inwards towards the pulley), and I think this is because the heat is building up in the pulley between the 2 bearings, and transferring the heat outwards, through the shaft, then the inside sides of the bearings, and finally the pulley, shaft and all of the bearings are warm.
Why would this be?
I mucked around with tensioning that belt for hours, and aligning it just so, it can't be out more than a pinch at best.
Is this something that is going to be corrected by that round urethane belting material when it arrives and replaces the V-belts??
I just don't want to run this thing if it gets too hot, as after all this trouble I don't want what little I actually have of the machine burning out!
I still don't have a shaft for it, but I understand that cpdad is busy with his personal life, hopefully when he returns it will get sorted out and I can get the shaft still to use with this machine, as it's kinda useless without one.
Sigh............................
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by drjo on Sept 3, 2010 20:10:50 GMT -5
Is this with the new round belts?
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 4, 2010 12:56:54 GMT -5
No, I'm still waiting for the new round belts to arrive.
This is with the v-belt.
Do you think this issue will go away when I replace the v-belt with a round urethane one?
I think what I need to do to prove or disprove that the bearings are not heating up for sure is to simply drive the shaft another way, maybe by just coupling a different motor temporarily to the end of the shaft and disconnecting the v-belt from the mounted motor, and then just spin it for awhile to see if there is ANY heat buildup in the bearings area at all.
Then, by doing this, I will know if that heat is definitely being generated by friction on the v-belt at the pulley on the shaft at the bearings.
Just to add insult to injury, I bought a grease gun at Canadian tire for about 12 bucks, it was the mini type, that takes the mini lithium grease canister inserts, which I "thought" would be fine, until "after" I gave the 2nd bearing a shor of grease, and went to pull the gun's filling tip connection off the grease zerk on the bearing, and it would NOT detach!
After only a slight amount of pressure to the side, the zerk snapped off, and I simply cannot get it out of the end of the grease gun tip!
It just will NOT release no matter what I do.
Luckily, I had a spare zerk, and the broken threaded end came out of the bearing easily, but I'm still confused as to why it will not release, there is no special mechanism or lock, it just grabs the zerk when you push it onto it, and is SUPPOSED to release it when you pull it away, obviously, the wonderful made in china grease gun has malfunctioned, and will be returned to the store.Grrrr.....
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 4, 2010 14:32:18 GMT -5
I think your heat problem is one of two things. #1 the belt is too tight, and is creating friction by trying to squeeze all the way into the bottom of your pulleys. #2 the belt is too loose, and is slipping on the pulleys. This also will cause friction and make things heat up.
See if the end collar on your grease gun will screw off. There should be a spring and pair of jaws inside that hold the zerk fitting. You should be able to take it apart and get the broken piece out. At least you can with American made grease guns. Don
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drjo
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Post by drjo on Sept 4, 2010 19:30:40 GMT -5
Since your not driving anything but a bare shaft you could run the belt very(almost floppy) loose and see if you get heat buildup (a little is normal, but nothing you can't touch) after five minutes.
If you want to test the shaft from a different motor, end couple it with a piece(s) of rubber hose or tubing to match the shafts together.
Dr Joe
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 5, 2010 9:33:49 GMT -5
As mentioned, hot belts are usually caused by belts too loose or too tight. Out of allignment and pulleys worn out so belt fits too deep also. Problem could be bearings also. Didn't you say one of the bearings didn't turn? Some bargain bearings are no bargain.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 5, 2010 13:41:33 GMT -5
Thanks all for that great info. Bearings and things like this oddly enough are just something I've just never really had to deal with in the past, other than maintaining a pre-existing system of some type. I used to repair and maintain photographic roller transport developing machines that had a billion bearings in them, and when one went kaput, i simply removed the "module" and replaced it, I've never had to deal with actually installing and setting up a brand new bearing, so this is a learning curve for me. Since the bearings I purchased were a bit of an "odd" form factor, meaning that they are much higher up than most are, if I have to replace them, I'll have to build in more "supports" underneath the bearing to bring a shorter style bearing up to the same height, but I think I'll be ok with this bearing housing, I've already found and replaced the tight bearing that was originally in the housing, the one that didn't turn right. I round an almost exact replica that fit perfectly at Princess Auto for only 5 bucks, so I'm kinda thinking that if it IS the bearings I'm having an extremely BAD string of luck with bearings! I'm really starting to already think this machine is cursed with all the trouble I'm having getting parts, having the shaft going missing, dealing with suppliers with "issues", receiving faulty parts,and having broken off the grease zerk once myself after already receiving it broken to begin with. I'm also starting to regret scrimping on the bearings to begin with, as I think your correct, some things that "look" like a bargain really are not, and you definitely GET what you paid for. I'm REALLY hoping that my luck has a turn for the better soon, as I just cannot believe how much hassle this has been since the start of trying to put a SIMPLE device together!! I received my 6" Covington wheels the other day, and I must say, that is yet another example of "getting what you paid for", I don't know how they will perform, but at first glance, they are made from that REALLY cheap brittle feeling dollar store plastic, and the layer of diamond polishing "belt" (if you can call it a belt) looks to me like a piece of paper with some glue smeared on top of it. They look SUPER CHEAP, and remind me of a $5 plastic wheel for an electric lawn mower! Even the adapters that come with it are only half the width of the actual tube inside the wheel where the shaft fits through, so when you insert them and center then in the middle of the shaft tube, there is about 1/4" on each end, in other words, the adapter is only about half the length it needs to be to make it fully from one end of the wheel's shaft tube to the other. I'm not sure how this will effect the stability of the wheel, if at all, but I guess time will tell. The adapter also is made of that super cheap red brittle plastic that looks like a dollar store child's toy type material, and would just disintegrate if it were to ever have any real pressure placed upon it. I'm not sure if the cheap "appearances" or the fact that the wheel weighs about as much a "quarter" (ok, maybe TWO quarters!) will really effect the actual performance of these wheels, but i can say that with 4 wheels mounted on the shaft, I really don't think the belt will feel ANY difference at all in terms of having to spin any weight, but who knows, they may perform beautifully and last for years to come. (Trying my best to be positive now!!) Just thought I'd give my initial impressions of the Covington diamond polishing wheels that are supposed to be a cheaper option to a Nova wheel, so far not impressed, but all I care about is performance, so if I EVER get this thing up and running, I'll let you know how they polish! Chris
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 8, 2010 20:08:52 GMT -5
YIPPEE!! My shafts finally arrived!! THANK YOU CPDAD!!!! I'm not sure what happened to change things, but the shafts appear to have been returned from the wrongfully delivered address and resent to me in Nova Scotia thank goodness! I was starting to feel kinda glum about it, thinking they might not at all arrive, but today they did, and it really made my day! Thank you SO much Kev, I couldn't have built this machine without you!! Something good will be coming your way eventually So here is the machine thus far, now that I've received the shaft and installed it, everything seems to be running very smoothly. I also received the urethane belting today, it was like Christmas here I melted the belt ends together via blow torch and it worked out just fine, the belt is MUCH better than the V-belt in terms of quietness and heat buildup, although I "am" a little concerned still about the heat it still does generate. It's nice and loose, but not slipping, and seems to fit perfectly in the channel of the pulleys, as i was advised that 3/8" belting would. I ran it for about 5 minutes, nice and cool, so I ran it for about 10 minutes longer, and after that time, it was fairly warm at the bearings, oddly the right bearing was quite a bit noticeably hotter than the left, and both bearings were lubricated equally, although the weird thing was that I put ONE shot of grease via the grease gun in each bearing, and the grease actually started coming out of the seals. What's going on here? I thought these bearings came with NO grease in them?! VERY confusing! Nothing but issues with these bearings, I might be forced to actually spend some money on bearings that work, but as I said, then I'll have to put more spacers under them to build them up, as i have the higher form factor bearing housings, and probably won't find those again anywhere. I've got a good feeling that it was the bearings that are problematic, and still might be, as the one that I replaced is the one that is running a bit cooler. Anyhow, they aren't really "hot" or anything, they just are at the temperature that if they were any hotter after 10-15mins of running them, that I wouldn't feel comfortable having my fingers on them, although it feels that most of the heat is actually at the shaft, not the bearing itself. Is this too hot? Before, with the V-belt, the heat was definitely on the pulley on the shaft, and not so much the shaft, but now, after putting the urethane belting on, the pulley is no longer what is heating up, it's more on the shaft at the bearings than anything, and the collar in the bearings is definitely tightened onto the shaft via the collar's set screws, so it's not slipping or anything. Here are some pictures of the machine thus far, I just put the new Covington " Nova wheel substitutes" on there just to see how they ran, and they seem to be running fine, with no real vibration or anything, everything seems to be running very quiet and smoothly, although on the 8,000 grit wheel, I can see a tiny bit of wobble occurring, must be those cheap adapters on the shaft. This machine is by NO means finished, as the WHOLE inside of it still needs to be finished, I need to make the cover for the bearings out of the plastic pieces I have, so that the bearings are fully covered and no water hits them, ( That's why the 4 long bolts are sticking out, as this will hold the cover in place as the cover will slide onto those 4 bolts and be held on via the 4 nuts) and the drain still needs to be built into the hole in the bottom, as well as several coats of the waterproofing black goo still need to be put over everything once it's all finished being built. Then the aluminum water guard and the hand rest pieces will be installed, as well as the plumbing water supply on the top of the unit, and THEN is will all be done, and I can start using it finally! Thanks again for all your help everyone, especially Kev for your generosity and putting up with my worry over the messed up shipment issue, I owe you BIG time Kev!! Chris Ain't that belting pretty? LOL
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 9, 2010 21:45:57 GMT -5
Here is the beginnings of the box that houses the bearings, that keeps them nice and dry, and keeps all the water out. In that big washer bolted to the white side of the box will be an oil soaked felt gasket, that will keep any water entering the box via the shaft. There will be a front cover and a bottom to the box, the front and bottom cover will be held in place by the 4 nuts you see on the long bolt, 4 holed drilled in the cover will allow it to slip over the bolts and lock in place via the nuts. The entire inside of the area where water will touch is coated with asphalt rocker panel coating that dries to a non-tacky surface, yet is still flexible, so it seemed like a perfect thing for this application, to make the entire thing watertight. I've used it in another cabbing machine and it works great. I've also installed the drain in the bottom as well, so now, just have to finish this box around the bearings, seal it up, and then install the water guard and supply plumbing, and I'm almost there finally! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 9, 2010 22:13:29 GMT -5
Looks good so far. Are those aluminum pop rivets I see holding the angle brackets in place ? You might want to coat them with that asphalt material. 2 different metals together + water = corrosion. Also, water will leak through where the pop rivet nails are. They make water tight pop rivets, but they're hard to find and expensive. Don
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drjo
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Post by drjo on Sept 10, 2010 11:30:41 GMT -5
I think they're phillip's head machine screws w/nuts...
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 11, 2010 0:42:44 GMT -5
Yup, those are machine screws with nuts, and those pieces of white plastic material (Actually formerly my kitchen cutting boards, ah.....who needs cutting boards anyhow...LOL) will be coated with the black sealant, so you won't even see that hardware, and you won't even see the metal mounting brackets that hold them to the body either, as the whole thing will have several coats of sealant over it all, so rust is not an issue here. The ONLY thing that will contact water that is metal is the shaft when this is all finished, and that will be coated with oil, and maybe even a clear spray sealant made for coating metals so that they don't rust. The large metal washers now have glued inside of them several layers of felt "washers", (the hole in the cutting board material is stuffed with felt washers that are glued into place) and that felt washer assembly will be oil soaked, and is tight to the metal shaft, so no chance at ALL of any water getting to the bearings. Additionally, a loose rubber flap will be secured laying over the felt oil soaked washer assembly to basically just repel any dirty water from gooping up the felt with gunk, as without that rubber flap, the dirty water would probably quickly foul the oil soaked felt. I also just picked up a foot switch originally made for an old sewing machine, i think that might be a handy way to control it while cutting don't you think? Does anyone out there ever use fott switches on these things? It's getting there finally! Chris
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by drjo on Sept 11, 2010 9:56:32 GMT -5
1) If it is an on/off switch type, check the current rating. 2) If it is the variable speed type...forget it, forget it, wrong type motor and current capacity. Tho it may make a neat neat little smoke cloud if you did try it :drool: Dr Joe .
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 11, 2010 17:53:41 GMT -5
Don't worry Joe, I might seem like a dummy with most everything else I do, (like bearings and belts...lol) but being an electronics tech, the ONE thing I NEVER do is ever exceed the current ratings on ANY device, and I "actually" use ohm's law to ensure that I don't! It's a basic "on/off" type foot pedal switch, and is rated at 250V @ 40A, so if i used Kirchoff's voltage/current law to invert the voltage to 120V and calculate the current draw capabilities, it will handle a ton of current! I actually wondered what kind of sewing machine could possibly draw that much current, must be from some kind of industrial unit. In my younger years i took great pride in creating the biggest smoke shows possible, and the loudest bangs in my lab, but as you grow up, you realize that after awhile it gets expensive, and is not worth the cheap thrill of watching the wife jump every time your messing with something...LOL My favorite trick to play on people was to reverse their tiny electrolytic capacitors in their projects (which creates a nice little pop, and the illusion of falling snow from the rolled up paper inside...lol) or to put a tiny piece of number 38 gauge wire across their receptacle AC plug blades so when you plug it in there is a tiny pop and a little light and smoke show, hehe. It's not enough to even pop a breaker, but it sure wakes people up in a hurry! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 11, 2010 18:08:05 GMT -5
I'll bet you used to shut off the breakers and plug resistors in the electrical outlets too.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 12, 2010 17:34:46 GMT -5
Actually, in the lab, we used to have a 20 foot long table with all our test gear lined up, so there would be oscilloscopes, and power supplies ect all plugged into a chain of power bars, all plugged into one another, so if you turned off the one at the beginning of the chain, where it plugged into the wall, they all would shut off. I would watch my co-worker at the end of the chain, at the other end of the table testing something, and then temporarily flick off the power switch to the power bar, and suddenly, everything would lose power on his test jig. After watching him struggling to find the short in his system, and smacking his jig for a 1/2 hour or so, I would wave at him and point at the power bar, then duck from the large heavy object he would then toss at me, LOL Well, got the trays installed and lots of black stinky stuff lining the inside surfaces of the cabbing machine now, and I've got the felt oil soaked shaft protector in place on the sides of the bearing housing to keep any water from reaching the bearings, I just have to mount the bearing housing and finish coating everything with the water sealant stuff to make sure everything is water tight. For a sealant, I'm using truck bed liner, it's expensive but will NEVER allow anything to ever penetrate it, and i got a gallon of it at the local flea market for 10 bucks anyhow! It's REALLY stinky, but once it dries, its there for good!)) Then I just need to mount the water splash guard and the water supply plumbing, then put it all together and finish the electrical. It's kinda hard to see what's what, but below is the picture of one side of the bearing cover, there is a stainless steel washer with stainless steel nuts and bolts, (and they have been covered with plumbers GOOP) and under the clear plastic disk that is glued over the stainless steel washer there is a core of felt soaked in oil. There is a plastic cover glued over both sides of the felt so no gunk gets in there. All will actually be covered with truck bed liner as well, so nothing will be open to the water to touch it, it will all be sealed up, except for the small hole in the plastic that the shaft goes through.
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 12, 2010 18:11:25 GMT -5
In high school electric shop we used to wait for the teacher to get called to the office for something. We'd shut off the main breaker supplying the shop, and then plug 1/4 watt resistors into all of the shop outlets. The teacher would come back, figure someone had tripped the breaker and turn it back on. For a second or two the shop would sound like a war zone.
Hey, don't seal things up too tight. Remember that if you have to replace the belt, you'll have to remove the shaft. Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Sept 12, 2010 18:44:24 GMT -5
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Post by cpdad on Sept 15, 2010 20:41:38 GMT -5
dude...glad to see you got the shafts....they were shipped and actually returned back to our shop....they were missing 1 invoice....not sure why....but it needed 3.....and it was shipped with only 2.....my secretary knows better....but it is what it is.
glad everything fit o.k. i had to machine a 3/4 shaft to 5/8..over that length... i fought that little basterd ;D....to make sure it ran true with in .002...end to end....and it does.
go ahead and get that machine finished....and cut some stuff ;D....im fixing to go to aruba....or italy...or somewhere.....fix her on up.....see ya when i get back......kev.
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