cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 25, 2010 13:16:36 GMT -5
Hi Kev, thanks SO much for doing this for me! You said 1/2" diameter? The shaft is 5/8" remember? It's just the threaded ends that are 1/2" I really hope you didn't make the WHOLE shaft 1/2" diameter, as I posted earlier and emailed you about, I messed up on the original measurements, thinking the ENTIRE shaft was 1/2" when it was ONLY the parts that were exposed and could be seen with the naked eye, the shaft steps down from 5/8" inside the bearings and arbor to the 1/2" threaded part that exits each side of the arbor. That is really kewl that you can rebuild the bronze bearings for the arbor, but I'm not sure how I would get the original ones out of the arbor! Maybe I'll just take a hard plastic or nylon peg and the rubber mallot and see if it moves when i tap it, it looks like it is firmly embedded into the arbor itself, so I dunno about removing them, I'll let you know what happens when I try to move them. Maybe it's an obvious fix to those who are machinists here, but me not being one, i can't wrap my brain around how to fix it! Here's a couple pics of the arbor so you can see the slight gap there, I REALLY hope this can be fixed and that it can be made to function perfectly! What I'm sure happened to this arbor was that the last person who owned it (I bought it used on ebay)had a large pulley mounted on the right side, obviously for the purpose of stepping down the speed via a large/small pulley ratio, INSTEAD of using the pulley in the CENTER of the shaft, as your supposed to, (because it is a small pulley) which resulted in ALL the pressure from the tight belt driving it to be placed on that one right side bearing. You can see in the pic that the wear is directional, most likely pointing towards the angle that the motor was mounted on. I'm sure this is what happened, as the large pulley was still on it when I bought the arbor, and there is only the excessive wear on one side, not BOTH sides. This is great, thanks for all the help everyone has offered! Chris Below, the left side, which is the good side, showing shaft slightly pulled back into arbor: Below, the left side, which is the good side, showing shaft slightly pushed out slightly from arbor, note step up from 1/2" to 5/8" shaft inside the arbor: Below, the left side, which is the good side, showing shaft as it usually sits when in proper position in arbor: Below, the RIGHT side, which is the BAD side, showing the slight gap between the brass sleeve bearing, and the shaft, the lubricant has pulled back just enough so you can see the gap clearly. Below, picture showing arbor hooked up for temporary test:
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 25, 2010 17:40:52 GMT -5
Here are a few close up pictures of the bearing, or sleeve, or whatever you call it...lol. I tried lightly hitting it with a hard plastic rod, to see if it would budge at all, and it would NOT move, so I don't know how that collar is going to possibly be removed without the use of a machine shop, (which obviously I don't have) in order to install new ones. When I set out to get a new shaft for this arbor, I did not realize that it was going to be so problematic, seems everything is going wrong ;( Also, I noticed that in the top of the collar inside, there is a tiny hole, that obviously is how the lubricant drips down onto the shaft to lubricate it, I wondered how that worked! Hope there is something I can do to make this arbor work right, especially after all the effort to make the new shaft, but regardless, I'm going to make good use of that shaft, even if I have to ditch this arbor and buy 2 pillow block bearings and mount them on a piece of steel for a base, I'm gonna make this work one way or another!! The good side is shown above, look at it in comparison to the BAD side below, see the difference in wear? I don't know what was done to it to cause that wear! The bad side again shown below: The pic below is showing the good side of the arbor: The pic below is showing the inside of the collar of the BAD bearing: The pic below is of the back side of the arbor:
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 25, 2010 18:53:53 GMT -5
The bearings are pressed out and pressed in with a hydraulic ram press tho I have been known to hammer them out with a socket wrench or piece of pipe the correct size. Machine shops or a good auto mechanic's shop should be able to do this economically. Once you get past this little bump you'll have a nice cabber to work with and a great story to tell about it . And we're rolling on.... Dr Joe .
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 25, 2010 21:44:26 GMT -5
Thanks Dr Joe, I just reformatted my PC, it was crapping out REALLY badly...lol. Now I'm back to crappy Vista from crappy Xp....LOL I "assumed" one would need a press to get those out AND back in again, that is why I am so worried, as one is lucky to get someone who doesn't end every sentence with "'y'all" around here, let alone someone competent with a machine shop, LOL I'll hunt around, so if cpdad supplies me with a set of them, I can get them installed hopefully easily. Nothing that is worth anything comes easily, that's what I always say, and there is a certain satisfaction when making your own equipment, like in my electronics lab, almost every piece of test gear I owned was self made except the oscilloscope, and even that had custom made instrumentation amplifiers that I made for it, hehe. Thanks again for the help! Chris
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spicer m
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 337
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Post by spicer m on Jul 25, 2010 23:52:37 GMT -5
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 26, 2010 0:23:46 GMT -5
Hi Mike, Thanks for that info, I appreciate you taking the time to let me know about those links! The problem is as always, finding someone to do this for me. The bearings are cheap, but I am sure around here IF I could find anyone to even do it, the labor would not be cheap. Again, it boils down to having, or knowing someone with a machine shop, or at least the appropriate equipment to do the job. For a guy that is set up to do jobs like these, it's probably nothing to it, but for me, it's near impossible...lol. I actually have another arbor that is the "saw" type arbor that you bolt flat to a bench, and it has a 5/8" shaft in it, AND ball bearings on each end. It is the type of arbot that you inject grease into to lube it, and the other day I actually managed to pop out the bearings with the rubber mallet, and then replaced them carefully, and was able to do so with enough precision that the shaft still spun freely for about 20 seconds when given a spin with the fingers when a 6" lap was attached to it, so I'm thinking that maybe if this arbor I have doesn't quite work out, then the other style one I have would be able to have it's shaft replaced (by me) with the new shaft. The only down side is that the pulley is not in the middle as is with the arbor in the pics, but in a pinch it could work, it just wouldn't be as pretty, that's all, and a bit less room on one side for the wheels if the pulley takes up a bit of the shaft. But this is in a desperate case, I'm hoping to not have to resort to such measures, and hopefully somehow fix the arbor I have now. thanks again for your advice! Chris
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 26, 2010 6:54:22 GMT -5
XP > Vista v (follow the arrows ;D) Vista BAD...XP GOOD (well better). Careful cooknet, ya'll is one one of my favorite words! ;D Any vocational schools around there that teach mechanics / machining? Yea, I liked / had to build alot of my test gear too, I did build a scope from scratch once but that was a long time ago . Oh well, keep the faith! Dr Joe .
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 26, 2010 10:08:07 GMT -5
XP > Vista v (follow the arrows ;D) Vista BAD...XP GOOD (well better). Careful cooknet, ya'll is one one of my favorite words! ;D . Yeah but that's different, you guys are SUPPOSED to say y'all!! Up here, it's usually an indication of a close relationship to a cousin or something other that should not occur,....LOL I did not in any way mean to offend you Dr Joe, or anyone else, that's for sure! You can say y'all ALL ya want, your obviously one of the most intelligent people I have met, as are most of the people on this forum, that's why I come here, i trust y'all's judgment! hehe. regardless of what happens with this arbor, that shaft that cpdad is making for me is the all important universal factor that cannot be easily obtained anywhere, I can get an arbor anywhere, or bearings easily as well, I just can't get one with a LONG shaft made for mounting polishing wheels on it! As soon as you put a long shaft on it, it's suddenly FOR lapidary, and thus will cost a fortune! So that shaft is the key, and will end up on SOME suitable arbor one way or another, I just have to wait and see how it all plays out! Thanks!! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 26, 2010 10:33:30 GMT -5
I agree with Mike that you'd be time and money ahead if you bought pillow bearings with the sealed bearings. You can get them in the correct size to fit the shaft that is being made for you. If you replace those bronze bushings, they're just going to wear out again, and possibly take that new shaft with them. Why not do it right in the first place, and save yourself more work and grief down the line ? Don
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 26, 2010 11:14:46 GMT -5
"you guys are SUPPOSED to say y'all!!" Funny thing is Chris... I'm from Detroit, MI ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D "Up here, it's usually an indication of a close relationship to a cousin"... you say that like it's a bad thing You have definitely not seen some of my cousins!!!! (they're from Canada tho . If I was offended you would have only gotten one very short flaming post in reply Dr Joe .
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 26, 2010 11:21:01 GMT -5
No y'all's coming from here. I was born in Ohio, raised in California, and now living in South Dakota. The closest thing to y'all in my family was my old man. He was born and raised in Kentucky. LOL Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 26, 2010 12:30:58 GMT -5
Yeah, your right Don.
I intend on doing "everything" the right way from now on!
I am also building a faceting machine, and have been conversing back and forth with some professionals there regarding the design and building of that machine as well, and there really is no 2 ways about it, you have to build things the right way from the very beginning, without taking shortcuts, or your wasting your time.
I came into this whole thing thinking I could just build these machines with what I had, and very little additional purchases to make them complete, but the reality is that if you don't spend the money to do it the right way, with the right parts in the very beginning, the whole thing is a waste of time, because like you say, I'd just end up having to fix it or rebuild it again in the future, and that would just suck!
Like I say, regardless, the shaft is a necessary thing, and it will be included in whatever arbor I decide to use, I think what I might just end up doing is purchasing 2 of those 5/8" pillow blocks, for the 5/8" shaft, and mount them on a "U" shaped piece of steel some how, so the pulley can be mounted between them, just like this arbor's form factor is, but the only thing that makes it difficult when you have 2 pillow block bearings that aren't those "self aligning" type is getting them mounted on 2 surfaces that are completely and exactly paralell to one another, so the shaft can go through each bearing and fit exactly.
what I thought about to get away with this is to have the 2 pillars, one for each pillow block bearing that are as "exact" to one another as I can get them, and then put the shaft through both of them, and instead of just bolting them both down, and probably having them not exactly even, thus causing the shaft to not turn at all, lay down a thick blob of JB Weld on the top of each pillar that the pillow block bearings are to be mounted on, put the bolts through them, and through the holes in the mounting pillar, and just press the bearings down onto the mounting pillars, so that when the JB weld hardens, both bearings are EXACTLY aligned, and then I can tighten the bolts and nuts that mount it together, knowing that this way, they will be exactly level to one another, know what I mean?
Sometimes it is VERY hard to explain this stuff!
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 26, 2010 16:04:16 GMT -5
I've been looking at those bearings, and just wondered what the difference would be between these two pillow block bearings, other than the shape of the housing, as well as that one of them has set screws to attach the shaft to the bearing: www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-2162/5-fdsh-8%22-High-Centerheight-Pillow/Detailor: www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-4/5-fdsh-8%22-Pillow-Block-Bearing/DetailSo what is the difference between attaching the shaft to the bearing collar and NOT attaching it to the bearings? Is it more desirable to attach it, or not attach it? Obviously, attaching it means no slippage of the shaft from side to side, which is good, so without the set screw pillow block bearing model, I'm guessing I would have to have a locking collar put on the shaft outside each bearing to keep the shaft in place? I'm just confused about the attaching to the shaft thing, as I guess I never thought about that issue before really. Also, just out of curiosity, those "rod ends", can they act as bearings also, or are they just to "assist" bearings, and to be only used just as it says, at the end of a rod to stabilize it?? Rod ends: www.thebigbearingstore.com/rodends.htmlThanks! Chris
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spicer m
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 337
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Post by spicer m on Jul 26, 2010 23:12:48 GMT -5
Chris As many times as I have been to the bearing site I have never seen the first bearing. I LIKE IT. I would chose higher one because it has 2'75" to center of bearing to base bottom. Both are self aligning. Rod end bearings are normaly used on the ends of linkage. not ment to rotate fast. You are correct about the locking collar. If I understand You question correctly.
Mike
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2010 8:59:35 GMT -5
Given the choices you have, I would go with the pillow bearings that have the built in collars and set screws. No worry about misalignment with those puppies. They may cost a little more, but it's money well spent. Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 27, 2010 9:53:42 GMT -5
Thanks Mike and Don, it's good to know I'm on the right track! Don, can you please post a link to the EXACT bearings that you recommend? I'm about to purchase a set, regardless of whether the arbor I have works or not, that way I have a backup plan if something goes wrong, and they can always be used anyhow on something else. I just want to be SURE I get the EXACT ones you are talking about! I'm also glad I pointed out something you didn't see before Mike! Thanks again guys! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2010 10:12:31 GMT -5
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 27, 2010 10:23:48 GMT -5
An inch of clearance towards "what", the bottom of the cabbing machine? No worries about that! I have to really raise the arbor up high to make the wheels fit properly in the water guard, and also because I knew I'd need room underneath for the trays! You posted the "shorter" bearings without the locking screws, is that not the inferior one of the two? Just trying to figure out the best features, and why it is better to lock the shaft to the collar, as opposed to just a spacer ring locked onto it. This is all new to me really, as far as all the mechanical stuff like this goes, although I've done it before, I probably have never done it "right", so I want to ask the PRO's here! Also, I just acquired a 3" wide 8" aluminum polishing wheel, the kind for belts. I have a bunch of silicon carbide belts that came with it, so I guess now I'll have to build a single wheel machine, with a NEW shaft that has a tapered end to mount it on that is a 1" portion of the shaft, maybe cpdad can help me with THAT one next, and this time I'll PAY him for his troubles!! That wheel is an older beast, and I'm not familiar with it, it just has a slot in it, with a locking mechanism, it almost looks like a portion of the belt is fed into the slot, and then the locking mechanism locks down on that fold in the belt to keep it in place. Is that how those work? Wouldn't there be a BUMP with every rotation? I'll post a pic of it later on. also, it's covered in a soft rubber padding, like a rubber flex wheel would be, but the rubber is all sticky and broken down, so is there a standard replacement for that rubber layer on top of the wheel, as this one seems too "sticky" to even be able to get a belt on there, and the black goop gets all over your hands if you touch it! Thanks!! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2010 10:38:21 GMT -5
I posted the shorter one, but it says 2 set screws for locking to the shaft.
You have the old cam lock type wheel. They used to have a thin layer of soft rubber over them, and both ends of the belt feed through the slot into the cam. Turn it with a wrench, and it tightens and locks the belt. I gave 2 of those away a few months ago. Covington still lists the cam lock drums in their catalog, and may have the rubber backing for them. They do list the bulk roles of 3" wide S.C. paper for them. The belts you have are meant to fit the expando drums, and won't fit the cam lock drum. Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 27, 2010 16:57:59 GMT -5
Well that's a bummer, MUST you use that particular rubber that they supply, or can a similar substitute be made to use for that purpose, like some kind of neoprene foam rubber, or something like that? So did you "give" away because they are out dated and crap now, or just because you like to use the newest stuff? Will this wheel "work" at all? If those belts don't work on it, then what belts "DO work?" The belts are 3" wide by 25 - 7/32", and I just tried to fit one over the 8" wheel, nowhere near long enough to fit, so your right, they don't fit! So, what wheel WOULD these belts fit on, just a standard rubber flex wheel, the expanding type that puffs out during rotation via centrifical force? Hmmmmmm.................... I can get my hands on an " Exact SPAND Expandable rubber lapidary drum Model EX83 8"x3" " but will that fit these belts? If it will,. I will tell the person offering it to me to go ahead and send it to me! Lemme know if you can please here's the belts: Here's the old wheel:
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