cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 22, 2010 21:58:13 GMT -5
Here is a pic of the general form factor of the machine I'm just starting to build, so please, don't laugh, as currently, it's just a bunch of pieces put together to "look" like something. Everything will be sanded, painted, and properly put together, and a tray installed on the bottom part. Additionally that Plexiglas part you see in the picture will not be present, (or at least the front par that is in contact with the tube will be cut out as well as a part of the tube) it's simply in there to hold the tube in place until the other parts around the arbor are built into the machine. The arbor will have a base that raises it up so that the shaft center will be in the center of where the tubes currently are, and the tube will be cut horizontally to expose the wheel, I was thinking to cut it kinda where the line is now that you can see drawn on the tube, right about in the middle. It there a good reason to raise that line up higher so that more of the upper portion of the wheel is exposed?
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 23, 2010 9:15:00 GMT -5
Anytime you drop water on top of a wheel spinning toward you you will get some water thrown forward. A splash curtain would be a good thing.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 23, 2010 20:27:00 GMT -5
Well, I decided to go with this angle for the splash guard. It's all just kinda held together with a few nuts and bolts just to show how it will eventually "look" when it is finished, which hopefully will be considerably BETTER than how it looks now. That piece of Plexiglas win the front will be cut off eventually also. I can always add a piece of rubbed as a flap hanging down also later if I find the water is spraying, and I also am cutting the mounting holes in the plastic guard as a "slot" so I can pull this up or down, depending on how I want it. what do you think so far? Are there any features that you think I must have that you don't see in this design? What about a place to rest your hands? I've seen some machines with a padded hand rest to make it easier on the wrists when cabbing. Thanks Chris
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 23, 2010 21:21:12 GMT -5
You need pans under the wheels with drains. The front edge of pans are usually the hand rest and easiest to slip fit pipe insulation over edge.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 23, 2010 23:19:49 GMT -5
I know, like I said, it's not finished! It was stupid of me to ask if it needed anything when I didn't lay out all the parts showing what I "intended" on putting into it...lol, sorry. I have 2 perfect plastic pans that fit just right in there, that was originally for a dehumidifier, and it will also have a border around the bottom, and everything that will be contacting water will be coated with a heavy duty asphalt water proof coating, the same thing that you use to coat the rocker panels on your vehicle with so they don't rust, either that stuff or the rubberized truck liner stuff, either way, it won't leak, and the wood will be covered. The motor mounts in the box below, and there will be a piece of plastic or metal on each side of the arbor, keeping water from contacting it, as well as there will be an end piece on each end of the plastic tubing, covering the whole thing so nothing can splash out the sides. I'll post pics as it comes together, it can't really be used until I get that new shaft from cpdad, he is working on it for me on his spare time, he is such a nice guy doing that for me!! Chris
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 23, 2010 23:26:10 GMT -5
Back of box is open? Motor needs air for cooling.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 24, 2010 1:57:03 GMT -5
thanks for mentioning the cooling, I thought of that, but didn't mention it, I have 2 computer fans inside that box, one sucks air in and one blows it out, so it will be nice and cool in there I'm sure, in fact, I even thought of using the cols water intake from my water supply lines as a cooling source for then air intake. I'm sure I'm getting over complicated, more than I need to, but that's half the fun, making a gizmo and getting it to work....lol.
I was just gonna have air holes, but thought since the electricity is going to be in the box anyhow, I might as well wire in a fan. I'm not a fan of having water above electricity or electrical devices, that's just bad design, I am aware of that, but if I am careful, and REALLY make it all water tight, there shouldn't be an issue, it will only be an issue if I take shortcuts and get sloppy when making it.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 24, 2010 8:27:54 GMT -5
You mentioned having plastic or metal on each side of the arbor to protect it from grinding snot. You might want to add a metal disk too. Make it with an inside diameter slightly larger than your shaft. drill 3 holes for mounting screws, and sandwich a felt disk between it and your housing. The felt should just touch your arbor shaft. This will lessen the chances of grinding snot reaching your bearings. I did this on a home built grinder years ago, and it worked good for me. Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 24, 2010 12:01:35 GMT -5
Oh, you mean like a "stuffing box" that they would use on a ship to keep the water out of the shaft housing where the shaft for the propeller goes that drives the ship right? I'd already thought of several schemes to avoid the "snot" reaching the bearings...lol, but what you mentioned sounds good. I "was" going to simply mount a square of 1/8" vulcanized rubber with a hole cut into it for the shaft to go through, and mount one of those on each side of the metal or plastic piece that the shaft would go through, so it sandwiches that piece of metal or plastic, and maybe even put a bit of petroleum jelly in between the 2 pieces just to try to seal it better. That's what I did on a flat lap that I built, and it seemed to work great, never had a leak ever, and I expected to eventually smell burning rubber from it making contact with the shaft or something, but it just never did that, which was kewl. When you mounted that felt disk Don did you put any oil or anything on it, to inhibit rust from forming in that area? I could really see felt sucking up moisture and staying wet! Thanks for that suggestion, it would probably work better than the rubber idea that I had! The only real "challenge" I'm going to have when building this thing is getting the arbor raised to the right height, so that the wheels fit perfectly inside the water guard, and making sure it is aligned properly so that wheels at the far end are spaced the same from the water guard as wheels close to the arbor. I've got some mounting ideas that should ensure it is pretty rigid, involving a few steel bars, as afterall, it is being mounted onto "wood", and wood is not very stable, so I'm putting a piece of steel under and on top of the wooden top of the base, and drilling holes through those pieces of steel, so nothing will EVER move, sag, or otherwise to the nasty things that wood do over time. Also, it's all going to be sealed with fisherman's marine paint, so the wood aspect of things shouldn't be an issue, it's the stuff that they paint wooden lobster boats with here in Nova Scotia, so I think it will withstand the moisture of my cabbing machine! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 24, 2010 12:10:56 GMT -5
Stuffing Box ? Sounds like you spent time in the Navy, or at least around ships.
It might not be a bad idea to soak the felt in oil. Mount the washers with short stainless steel sheet metal screws. They won't rust, and will make changing the felt washer easy.
Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 24, 2010 12:21:49 GMT -5
Yeah, you might say I have a bit of a "military" background...lol. Not only have I worked on many of the ships systems being an electronics technologist and all, but I also am a navy brat myself, and so is my wife, after all, I DO live in Halifax, Canada's largest navy port!! I've also done work on ROV's and they require a stuffing box to keep the water from seeping in through the shaft housing and into the precious electronics on board, so I guess I do have a bit of background in that kinda thing. If I can build that kinda stuff, you'd think I would have NO problem building a simple cabbing machine, hahha. Thanks again for the suggestions, by the way, do you happen to know of a cheap place to acquire felt from? The ONLY place I could even FIND felt was in the polishing disks that I purchase online from a lapidary supply place, as even the local fabric stores only stock the green felt made for pool tables, and it is a ridiculous $26/yard! I bought the synthetic polyester felt that looks and feels like felt (which is matted wool) to try out as polishing pads, and it works really well, although it makes the inside of my flat lap look like the cotton candy machine at the fair, as that "fluff" keeps detaching and spinning around i there...LOL Also, the center of the disk seems to have this weird "yarn spinning" effect when in use, as I'm polishing, this little bit of the fabric will catch on the dop stick and all of a sudden there is a long string coming out of the center of the polishing pad (there is no hole in the middle, velcro mounted) that is attached to the end of my dop stick, and it looks just like how wool is spun...LOL
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 24, 2010 21:01:04 GMT -5
Things are looking good!!!! Hey...looks like we have more in common than rocks I designed/prototyped mini ROV's for ~10 yrs. My title was hard to say in one breath...Electro-Mechanical Engineer Diagnostician hard way of saying that I thought it up, built it and fixed it. Anyway... Cut some wood blocks of different sizes with different angles on one side for hand/wrist rests and cover the contact side with foam water pipe insulation (it's soft). You could wrap the motor with copper tubing and out to your drip nozzles and have warm water in the winter . Squeeze plumber's grease (waterproof) into the felt (craft/hobby shops) it won't wash out as easily. Your right about the spinning wheel effect with the felt, usually won't happen if you don't cross the center. It's from rubbing harder than the material can take. Keep it going your on a roll. Dr Joe .
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 24, 2010 21:57:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the encouragement Dr Joe!! that's kewl that you've worked on ROV's. Every time I watch an episode of "the Sea Hunters" I keep thinking to myself, "hey, I want to do THAT!!" LOL I never thought that far into the future yet about needing to WARM something, I'm too busy sweating my butt off in the sweltering heat and humidity right now! That's a pretty good idea actually! I could always have both permanently hooked up, and have a Y valve to switch it from one to the other, warm in the winter, cold in the summer...lol. I certainly am not rubbing the material too hard, unless it can't take ANY rubbing, as it just kinda fluffs up all by itself, laying in wait for an unsuspecting dop stick to come close to it, so it can latch on and spin away...lol. I don't know how REAL felt works, but this polyester look alike stuff is a pain in the butt. I spoke to my guy in Australia, and his version of what he calls felt is actually "compressed rabbit fur", weird. He says it works the best of all, but he just calls it "felt". I guess it's a standard down there or something.....poor bunnies...lol. thanks! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 24, 2010 22:20:25 GMT -5
You might try a fabric store for felt. Or find an old felt hat at a thrift store.
I've found a great material for polishing disks. It's the synthetic felt that they line the " basement" cupboards in motor homes with. Don't know what the trade name is. I goy a couple yards of scrap while working at the Fleetwood motor home design shop. It doesn't come apart, and lasts forever.
I'm a retired Navy sheet metal mechanic myself. I've worked on my share of nuke subs, and after retiring, even worked for a sheet metal shop doing precision parts for the B-1 bomber.
Don
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 24, 2010 22:50:05 GMT -5
Just thought of another source for heavy felt. An old military wool blanket. They were useless as blankets, because they itched too much, but should be good for this. They might even work as polishing disks. Don
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 25, 2010 10:27:04 GMT -5
Well, the blankets worked on my barrack's floor . Dr Joe .
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 25, 2010 11:00:56 GMT -5
That's about all they were good for. I kept a sleeping bag in my locker for cold nights. Don
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 25, 2010 11:15:39 GMT -5
Hi Don, Thanks for the suggestions! B-1 Bomber eh? Kewl!
I did try the fabric store, my wife sent me on a top secret yarn kidnapping mission at fabricville and I then asked for the felt, which is when they advised me the ONLY felt available was the super expensive green stuff used for pool tables...."masse" shot anyone....LOL
That's how I ended up with that synthetic polyester "look alike" stuff that I hoped would not melt with any heat applied to it, as wool won't act like that with heat as you know, but then again, if your applying enough pressure to heat something up enough to melt, you DESERVE for it to melt! Imagine what the stone is feeling like at that point!
Funny you mentioned the old wool navy blanket, as I happen to have one right here beside me right now, it's itchy as HELL, and I was thinking that "maybe" if I were to sew a quilt type thing around it, and used it as a lining, it would be the best linus blankie ever, as those wool blankets are super warm! They call them a "firefighting blanket" and the one I have was my dad's, from when he was in the navy. That's about the only thing that keeps me from cutting it up, and your right, it IS useless, which is WHY I was just thinking about putting some kinda cover on it so I COULD use it! Perhaps if I put a duvet cover over it, and then sewed it into place so it didn't slip? Anyhow, this isn't "blanket making" support forum 101, so enough about the blanket! LOL
I even bought a yard of pure virgin wool made for a suit, as it was the ONLY true REAL wool they had in the place, but it is thin material, like in a suit (not to mention an ugly pattern, who would wear that thing...LOL), so I thought if I spray adhesived it onto a couple layers of that polyester wool substitute it might be ok, as long as the adhesive didn't bleed through to the front surface, so I'll have to spray lightly. It IS wool after all, so I though what the heck, it's worth a try, but the thing I was wondering about is that "felt" is basically "matted" wool, all compressed down into a sheet, while the fabric from the suit is "woven" wool, although it does have alot of the ends kinda poking up, to give it a bit of fuzz, so would the woven material not be good enough to polish on, as the fabric threads are all aligned one way or another, and not in a scattered pattern? In other words, would it be too harsh, and abrasive in that woven form, as opposed to the matted felt?
I noticed with the polyester pads I made, which were about 3 layers of the stuff cut into 6" rounds, and spray adhesived together, that when the diamond polish paste was applied, it "soaked" into the pads, and was actually soaked al the way through ALL the layers, what a waste of polishing paste! Would the wool NOT absorb so much, as opposed to the polyester stuff?
I tried that "SHAM WOW" product for the cerium oxide polishing wheel, as it works GREAT! It DOEs absorb a TON, as it is supposed to, but as a result, you get a polishing pad that is always full of cerium, so you don't have to re-appply with the paint brush to the wheel as often, as the wheel itself acts as a reservoir for the cerium, with the only problem being that it will "spin out" all the cerium if you rotate it at too high a speed, which is why I keep it spinning at probably between 200 and 400RPM's.
So....where to get some felt that's cheap...Hmmm......maybe I'll roll an old guy in the neighborhood for his old hat...hahaha (KIDDING!!!)
Maybe I'll try to sneak away one of my wife's knitted wool pot holders, haha, she's gonna kill me eventually....LOL
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 25, 2010 11:26:32 GMT -5
Oh yeah, that's what I "used" to use that old wool blanket for, when I used to have a memory foam mattress on my bed, they don't breathe AT ALL, so you would sweat if you had your fitted sheet right on top of the mattress, so I put that wool blanket down on top of it, and then another sheet to keep the itch from coming through the fitted sheet, and then put down the fitted sheet, it worked GREAT, nice and cool on the back at night! I would have thought that those wool blankets would have been too "abrasive" by the way, they are nowhere NEAR as soft as felt feels. So when your considering a final polish polishing pad, just how "soft" need it be then? If one of those wool blankets would work, one would think that sandpaper would too! Or maybe I could make a pad full of cactus needles....LOL OK, I'm just being silly now, but you get my drift. There IS a field full of Alpaca's just down the road, perhaps a late night visit with a hand full of oats in one hand, and the shears in the other?? You've really got me thinking now about just WHAT can be used for a good long lasting polishing pad, i just ordered one from www.rockunandgemunwet.com/ ,but it would be nice to be able to make one, as opposed to buying them as $16-$30 bucks a shot!! Incidentally, that website called "Rockun & Gemun W/E.T" are basically the ONLy people I could find as a major lapidary supplier who didn't treat me like crap because I'm a Canadian, and promptly answered my emails, and actually SOLD me stuff, treating me as an EQUAL, which is more than I can say for Kingsley, Lortone, and a few others!! Just thought I'd mention that I found them to be reasonably priced, friendly, and good to deal with, as I've had SO much trouble just trying to buy that arbor previously, which as you know I finally gave up on, as cpdad was SO KIND as to be making that shaft for me! I REALLY cannot thank him enough for that. I'll do something nice for him, good things happen to those who are kind to others!! Chris
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Post by cpdad on Jul 25, 2010 12:53:18 GMT -5
hey chris...the shaft is mostly finished..i just have the left hand threads to cut on the shaft and make the left hand nut for you.
you may want to post the pics of the worn bearing on here for others to look at....there is no reason to put a new shaft in a worn bearing....might as well do it right....i can make new bronze bearings...if that is what they are....im not familiar with this arbor....so others may have to help.
we are going with the 22" shaft....i dont feel really comfortable with the 24"....1 inch on each end doesnt seem like much...but it doesnt take much for a stainless shaft to bend.....especially at a 1/2 diameter...stainless sometimes has a mind of its own....kev.
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