cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jun 29, 2010 14:36:41 GMT -5
Oh, by the way, Why does the arbor shaft look so much different on the Beaver machines, as opposed to the Lortone machines? The Beaver machines look like they have a bunch of spacers and a large washer looking thing between each wheel, while the pictures of the Lortone arbor just shows a bare shaft with a nut on each end basically? It seems like the Beaver machine has more goodies on its shafts. Also, I get the impression that the beaver has no threaded hole on the end for a screw in polishing pad, , so instead, you put a pad holder on that threads over the shaft on the Beaver models I think, unless I'm reading this wrong. Beaver machine: www.gravescompany.com/arbors1.htmLortone machine: (Scroll down to "Lortone Classic Arbors") www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?catID=862&keys=&start=5&count=11I've sent out emails to Delta one AND Graves, and not ONE of them has replied to me yet, and that was last Friday. Does not one company out there want my money? I REALLY would like one of these guys to just confirm by email, in writing what comes with the units in terms of belts, pulleys, motor mounts etc BEFORE I do an online order, am I asking too much? Geesh! Chris
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2010 15:52:09 GMT -5
The Lortone machines do come with a good set of aluminum spacers. I don't know why you're having trouble getting info from Kingsley. I've never had a problem with them, and always double check with them before sending an order, just to make sure a price hasn't changed. You can also order direct from Lortone, www.lortone.comDon
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jun 29, 2010 16:36:57 GMT -5
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 29, 2010 19:04:01 GMT -5
WHY would people reselling their machines be selling them CHEAPER than Lortone themselves??
Check the cost of Diamond Pacific's Genie in their catalog, and then check the same machine in other catalogs. All of the manufacturers sell at a higher price than their authorized dealers. All I can say is, shop around the catalogs, and see who has the best price. Don
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jun 29, 2010 19:33:17 GMT -5
Building your own startin' ta look better yet? ;D
Dr Joe
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jun 29, 2010 21:40:16 GMT -5
Well then, I've come full circle haven't I? LOL Started out building my own, got convinced to buy a new one, tried to do it but nobody will sell what they are advertising, and now considering building with what I have again?....LOL No, I'm not discouraged Joe, I'll hang in there and eventually purchase one of those arbors, be it a Lortone or the Beaver. I got an odd response from the Delta one lapidary today however, I emailed again asking WHY they never replied, this is what they said in the email reply to me: Hello, Chris, Sorry for the confusion. We've been having trouble with the computer at the store. We've been getting your emails, but they're only partially legible. I hope this message gets through! I think it would be less frustrating for you to try to find what you need elsewhere while we fix this glitch in our system. Thank you for your understanding. Juli Dahl Delta One Lapidary I guess business isn't that bad that they need mine after all huh? LOL Wouldn't you think it might be better to ask someone to CALL you to finalize a transaction if your email isn't working rather than tell them to go away? Geesh!
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Jun 29, 2010 21:48:11 GMT -5
Holy crap! Is that charoite? Dang, it glows now!
Nate Edit : Doh! Didn't see page 2... Awesome opal!
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jun 29, 2010 22:20:47 GMT -5
This is what that blue on black stone looked like BEFORE it was cut, it is just a rub in this pic. As you can see, the color is a lot different, this color is a bit closer to what it REALLY looks like! I took quite a bit off of this stone for the sake of nice smooth edges, I couild have left it triangular and chunky, but it just didn't "feel" right to me to leave it like that. It also had to be sawn into 2 pieces, as a nasty sand bar on the underside of the stone came right up to the color layer, so it wouldn't have been stable left as is, even though it was larger that way. Roughly shaped, before any polish: Before it had been cut, showing the nasty sand wedge underneath (looking very "green" again due to the camera flash): I think THIS picture shows more realistically what the color tone REALLY is, more purplish: Still a rough rub, but missing a piece now ;(...sniff sniff....hehe The finished stone, I actually messed about with the color a bit, something I never do in an opal picture, but I was trying to color match it to how it looks to the naked eye, i think this looks a "bit" closer to how it really looks, but still not quite!
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 30, 2010 0:52:31 GMT -5
I would start by e-mailing Lortone and asking them the difference between the "Beaver" and "Classic". I'm pretty sure they are both Lortone products. I'm not a Lortone dealer but had a question for them last week and got an immediate answer. I hate it when companies don't answer their e-mails or don't know the products they are selling. Calls from Canada can be expensive but you may have better luck by phone. Too many "larger" companies have order takers that are just that, able to write up the numbers you give them.
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Post by cpdad on Jun 30, 2010 13:03:07 GMT -5
stop the madness here ;D...just post the length of shaft...length of threads each end....diameter.....and what size tapped hole in end of shaft you would like....and i will make it for you...just pay shipping.
if shipping isnt more than you can have 1 made for.....just figured id offer and save you some brain cells ;D....kev
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jun 30, 2010 22:27:02 GMT -5
Hi Kev, Wow, that's awefully kind of you! It's funny, after I posted this initial post looking for a new longer shaft for my existing arbor, I also posted the request on a machinist forum, (not a lapidary forum, one for people who are into machinist stuff) and had MANY replies stating that it would be too dangerous to put a longer shaft in the arbor, as it would not be strong enough only being 1/2" thick. I thought about it and figured it that many people are against it, who know what they are talking about, then I'd better listen to them, and then I found out about the Beaver arbor, the rest is history as they say, up until now. So now, I'm wondering if my initial plan was a wise one, i mean after all, I'm ONLY extending the length of the thing to hold one more wheel on each side, I'm not making a 10 wheel machine or anything! I planned initially on making a shaft that was 21" long, which takes into account the 6" wide that the arbor is, the 4 wheels if they are all 2" thick (although I'll probably use the 1.5 inch ones) with a 1/2" spacer between each wheel, and between the arbor and the 1st wheel on each side, plus 2" on each end of threading. That should all equal 21 inches in total. I initially figured that IF I used HARD stainless steel that was TOTALLY straight, and ONLY added 2 wheels on each side, then it might not be an issue, only spinning at 1725RPM max. What do you think? Do you think it would be safe? The current shaft is one half inch thick from end to end, with about an inch on each end of threading, the threaded ends are also 1/2" thick thread, most people told me I'd need a thicker shaft than 1/2" both for strength, and also because the threading part would need to be machined down to that 1/2" thread size from a larger shaft, which is bunk, because the shaft that's in there now is 1/2" from end to end, and it does not step down to a smaller threaded end shaft size for the threaded parts on each end. Hope I'm making sense, it's just a shaft, 21" long, 1/2" thick, stainless steel, 2" of one half inch thick threading on each end. If I could do it myself, I would, but I don't have the gear to do it myself. I'm assuming all you need to do is get the hard precision straight, stainless steel 1/2" thick shaft, cut it to 21", and thread 2" of each end in a 1/2" thread. That's it! If this sounds like it will be safe, then I'm all for it, and will definitely take you up on your offer, and I'll make it worth your while of course, but I STILL want one of those beaver arbors eventually! Chris
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spicer m
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 337
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Post by spicer m on Jul 1, 2010 1:57:01 GMT -5
Chris If You are dead set on using your 1/2" bearing housing can't beat cpdad offer. awful nice of him. I personaly think that 1/2" shaft may be a little small for that many wheels. also with 6" wheels I agree with the other posts you need more room between the wheels. Min 1 1/2" more is better. so that makes your shaft longer than 26" Another option is here if You want to build You own cabbing machine. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=buysell&action=display&thread=38742Hope this helps Mike Spicer
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 1, 2010 12:08:44 GMT -5
Thanks Mike for your reply and suggestions! Regardless of what I do, a new shaft in my existing arbor will definitely improve its usability, (meaning it won't just be sitting in a box unused anymore soon I hope!) and your right, that is an absolutely kind and giving offer made by cpdad (Kev), and I think I will take him up on his offer for sure. cpdad, I'll PM you soon for more details and to arrange the shipping and payment, thank you SO much! The arbor just has simply too short a shaft on it to begin with, I'm sure extending it a wee bit will not make it into a death machine or anything, and it will at the very least allow me to mount something usable on it. When it came, (I bought it off someone on ebay) it had no polishing wheels on it, but on one end it had a metal screw on end polishing disk attachment for a polishing pad, screwed onto the shaft end, and on the other end, someone had improvised and mounted on the shaft end an 8" pulley, and screwed onto it a 10" round piece of 1/2" plywood cut into a perfect circle to obviously use as a large end polishing wheel. It looks like in a previous life, it was simply a final polishing arbor, and this was probably because someone else was frustrated with trying to mount a decent polishing wheel on each end, with the threaded ends of the shaft just not quite being long enough to get the tightening nut on afterward. That link is a great help spicerm, thanks for that, most of all, thanks for the source for a cheap pillow block "self adjusting" bearing. I've been looking for one of those for awhile now for something else I was building. When I initially tried building my flat lap, and could not find a proper bearing arbor unit locally for it, or cheaply online (and I searched for a LONG time on ebay and elsewhere!) I bought a couple bearing units locally for like 11 bucks at Princess Auto that were NOT self aligning, and what a pain in the a$$! In the end, it just didn't work, the bearings weren't aligned right, and I could not get them in place without a proper press, so I just gave it up. I ended up buying what I "thought" was a half decent ancient crysalite dual verticle 8" disk flat lap, but when it arrived, it was smashed, (even though screwed to a WOOD packing container! That's UPS for ya!) and being only plastic to begin with, it was nasty LOUD when running, and even once repaired, it leaked all over the place, and was a TOTAL waste of money. I ended up screwing a wooden housing around it, painting it with a tick goopy black paint, and on the inside, I mounted a couple rings around the bearing and shaft under where the wheel mounts, to keep water from running in there, and then I slopped the truck bed liner liquid plastic rubber stinky stuff on the inside where the wheels are polishing the material to seal the whole thing and ensure it never leaked again. It's UGLY as hell, but it works...lol. I also added 3 suction ports in the floor of the thing for drains so that when I lay it on it's back and use it like a flat lap, I connect my shop vac to the drains, and it sucks every bit of water vapor or dust or anything that flies off the wheels when polishing, MUCH cleaner that way, louder....but CLEANER, and NO risk of lung infection if I ever dry polish something. (please no smack downs on the "dry polishing" issue!..lol) I've learned a TON since starting to build my own gear, and am STILL learning ALOT! Just a question about the spacing of the polishing wheels, what IS the recommended spacing size of the spacers, and WHY does it need to be the space between the wheels that it is? Meaning WHY do I need 1-1/2" between wheels instead of only 1/2"? Just curious! Thanks again everyone! Chris
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jul 1, 2010 17:21:47 GMT -5
When polishing larger cabs, it's possible to hit the wheel on either side of the one your working on.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 1, 2010 19:48:37 GMT -5
Oh, ok, that's what I figured.
I did actually see a cabbing machine that had guards between each wheel, like a plastic disk that was supposed to guard against that, I forget the brand name, but the way I see it is that you can only babysit yourself so much...lol.
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Post by cpdad on Jul 1, 2010 21:31:04 GMT -5
im a little concerned about the length also....but you the one using it ;D.....i will make it ;D.....i also think 1 1/2" is pretty much correct for spacing.
just let me know what you want.....thats what we will try ;D....we are loading up the jet-ski for a trip to lake marion to a friends house this holiday weekend......wont be back around till tuesday.......let me know details....we will get'er done ;D...kev.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 2, 2010 8:20:04 GMT -5
If you wanted to redesign the little arbor you could use outward pillowblock bearings to support the 1/2" shaft and make a 6 wheel unit. It would complicate wheel changes immensely.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 2, 2010 10:00:20 GMT -5
I thought about that actually, having a bearing at each end of the shaft to support the whole thing, but like you said, changing the wheels would be a REAL pain in the butt.
You would have to make it in such a way that a couple set screws could be removed that held the self aligning pillow block's in place, maybe with an allen key or something, so that you could easily slide the bearing off the shaft to slide on a new wheel, or remove one.
I just figured that the mounting of the pillow block bearing on each end would have to be a precisely aligned job, one that was left in place and not removed, unless you were prepared to line it all up again after doing so, which I'm not really...lol.
I have seen some commercially available units like that, and i wondered how they got the wheels on and off, I assumed they mush have had some custom machined gizmo that made it possible to remove and replace the bearings on each end without any hassles.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 2, 2010 18:10:51 GMT -5
Well, Kingsley FINALLY replied to me via email, and told me that the OLD name for the Lortone arbor was "Beaver", and most likely people selling those for $250.00 are selling old stock of a discontinued produce, not that I care if it's discontinued, but I can't seem to find anyone who is selling the Beaver anyhow, well, who will reply to me anyhow...lol So it looks like I'm going to go with the Lortone one from Kingsley, it's a bit more expensive at $280.00, but if you look at some of the Lortone resellers (such as one I viewed by clicking a link for resellers on Lortone's webpage who is in Australia), $280.00 aint bad compared to the $600.00 that they are asking there on that reseller's page! I still want the shaft from you though Kev, so at least I can still use the arbor I already have for other things. Thanks all for helping out! Chris
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Jul 6, 2010 14:34:27 GMT -5
Ok, I'm a DUMBA$$! I JUST pulled the shaft outta the arbor, and lo and behold it is NOT, 1/2" all the way through! I would have bet money on it being 1/2" straight through, but in actuality, it is 5/8th inch shaft with a 1/2" threaded ends! I just can't believe all this time I THOUGHT it was 1/2" all the way through, what an idiot I am! So, knowing this, what does it change in terms of it's stability? NOW could it handle 4 wheels? If I had the 5/8" shaft extended out to accept 2 wheels on each side, would it be strong enough to hold them? Thanks! Chris
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