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Post by tortuga on Sept 14, 2010 10:11:46 GMT -5
Targeted for those of you who have experience with the minisonic. I have some things I'd like to run in it already, some of them delicate (carvings or cabs with very sharp points). I'd like your thoughts on the following points:
1. Fillers - I see walnut shell, corn cob, plastic pellets (which I already use for rotary), and ceramic. I am guessing that the softer stuff (corn cob, walnut) will be gentler on the more fragile loads. -Is there any justification to the thought of needing to use the corncob or walnut rather than ceramic on carvings? I'm also guessing they might dissolve or be one-use-only? I know the ceramic would do fine with normal stones. -I read ceramic media doesn't hold grit so can stay with the load from start to finish. Correct? -For the really fragile-ish carvings I'm most paranoid about (Jade with thin parts, Sugilite, etc, Would it be safest to just run a single piece by itself with filler (to be determined by answers to above question on which filler is most appropriate) and no other stones just to be safest, or is my worry of breakage/chipping exaggerated?
2. I use SiC grits right now, and have several polishes available for polish stages. My rotary sequence is 60/90->220->600->polish, which works well but takes months. Is this sequence ideal for the mini-sonic?
3. Thoughts on "Vibra-Dry", if you've used it? I read that even though it's pricey, it can be reused... but what about the tiny pieces of stone that it takes off your loads? Wouldn't those contaminate the vibra-dry if you use it on a load of different hardness than the last, or is that just nitpicking?
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Sept 14, 2010 11:42:36 GMT -5
I have a Thumler's, not a Minisonic, so I can't help with some of the specifics, but here is my advice. 0. Use very little water. With a Thumler's, you just put in damp rocks and squirt a little more in whenever the action slows down (about 8-12 hrs). 1. I would use lots of the small ceramics. I think walnut shell and corn cob are for polishing metal. Plastic pellets tend to float to the top in a vibe (so do small ceramics, that's another reason to use a lot of them). Yes, you can use the same ceramics all the way through. Some Minisonics have adjustable speed, so you might slow things down for fragile stuff. I guess because the cycle times are so short in a vibe, I would do only one delicate thing at a time, unless they were cabs. 2. 60/90 is too coarse for a vibe. Start with 120/220, then 400, 600, 1000 with pre-polish, burnish, polish, burnish. Check out this thread thoroughly: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=tottumb&action=display&thread=29369I consider Randy, Jack, and Connrock the masters of vibe tumbling. 3. If you have a hard chip with soft stones that you're trying to polish, yes, you would get scratches. You would want to have dedicated vibra-dry for different hardnesses. No worries about hard chip, hard load or soft chip, hard load. Finally: there is a definite learning curve with vibes, more than with rotaries. Practice with enough loads to get a feel for it using rocks before moving on to the fragile stuff. Hope that helps! Chuck
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 14, 2010 15:04:27 GMT -5
Chuck answered everything except the Vibra Dry question. It works very well and can be reused indefinitely with the addition of a little extender fluid periodically. It starts with 600 and goes up so it isn't removing any pieces of rock. I mostly use it for final polish but know people that sand to 400 grit and step through the Vibra Dry from 600, 1700, 3000, 8000, 25000, 50000. They have 75K and 100K now but I really see no difference between 25 and 50. The best thing about it is it is used dry so no worries on how much water to add. The reuse part makes an expensive product justified. If your carvings need sanding then start with a 120/220 or straight 220 and then jump to Vibra Dry. Pieces are well cushioned but with really fragile pieces leave the little bag of stainless steel shot out. We use the 25K for removing tarnish from silver jewelry. Works great except the mixture (weird mixture of rice, seeds, etc.) gets in chain links and such.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,456
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 14, 2010 17:16:00 GMT -5
Only minisonic story I have ( now that mine is lying dead on the pile of tumblers from days past) is that was the gull derned noisiest tumbler I've ever had and with time it got noisier and noisier eventually reaching the volume of a Huey chopper....Mel
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 14, 2010 20:58:22 GMT -5
I had a customer returned one once because it was too noisey. It was at my 30 day Cloud's show so I made sure mine was running when he came back. In a box on an old towel. I made a point of checking it while he was there. Almost no noise. And Mel, I was a crew chief on F and N model Hueys and they were much louder. Maybe that's why I say "How's that?" so much.
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snowdog
fully equipped rock polisher
RIP David Fildes, aka: snowdog
Member since January 2005
Posts: 1,527
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Post by snowdog on Sept 14, 2010 21:08:44 GMT -5
I throw cabs of all sorts in my vib all the time --- course it is alot bigger than the mini-sonic ---- main thing is to let the cabs "swim" in the ceramic pellets --- maybe 3-4 and 7/8 full of pellets ------------- one thing to watch for in ceramic is to make sure you get the pure "white" ones as the grays have grit mixed in them sometimes -------------------if you are going to use the same ones all the way thu , you don't want a lower grit in the finer stages-----------------
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Post by deb193redux on Sept 16, 2010 9:49:43 GMT -5
I like ceramic, and especially the smaller cyllinders should not bother carvings.
To be really safe, you might consider the rayTech MicroBright balls. I use them on silver and them seem gentile and effective. Another advantage is that with a mix of sizes from 1mm to 6mm, you can get into finer places on the carvings.
With ANY hard filler though there is the potential to get some pieces wedged in any opening n a carving. I have ceramic get wedged in the holdes of donut cabs. I have had cabs break while I was prying these out of where they got wedged.
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Post by tortuga on Sept 16, 2010 12:35:10 GMT -5
How messy is this thing? Do i really need a lid?
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 16, 2010 15:38:11 GMT -5
You need the lid to keep everything inside and to keep damp mixtures damp. You could probably improvise a plastic wrap/rubber band top to try it out. The factory cap deadens the noise a lot.
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Post by tortuga on Sept 17, 2010 20:00:49 GMT -5
So, for ceramic shapes I need a certain kind that doesn't become embedded with grit according to above. White and clay, whereas I need the white color. Is that coloring a guarantee as to variety or are there other shades as well?
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 17, 2010 21:04:47 GMT -5
If they are the angle cut cylinders, white they should be labeled as "Non Abrasive". Most if not all the colored ones are with abrasives for metal finishing.
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Post by tortuga on Nov 20, 2010 17:20:07 GMT -5
finally got this thing up and running. been messing around with it today, and i'm having trouble maintaining proper motion of the stones inside. I bought the small non-abrasive ceramic media from kingsley north. Filled up the 4lb hopper about 1/3 with some stones ranging from .5 inches to 2 inches, mostly in between. Then filled it up to about 2.5 inches from the top with the ceramic filler. I did have two larger stones (about 2x1) but I took one out thinking it might be impeding the action.
For a few minutes, I did have the motion going, everything rising from the bottom, rolling over the top, and eventually sinking back down the other side. Didn't last long, though. I added some more grit (used about 4.5tbsp of 120/220), and added water, but now I have too much. I can see water in the bottom 1/2 inch or so, and according to the vibe guide bikerrandy wrote, there shouldn't be water showing. I'm not really getting a coating on the media/rocks, and they aren't moving. Right now I'm just waiting with the lid off for some of the water to evaporate out (I don't want to just dump it and waste the grit).
While I'm waiting for nature to put my excess water back into the great water cycle, any advice or hunches as to what I am doing wrong? It seems like it shouldn't be taking much maintenance (every few hours spritz water according to guide). No suggestion/guess is too newbie, I've now got a whole 1/2 hour of experience with a vibe.
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Post by deb193redux on Nov 20, 2010 18:50:08 GMT -5
I get much better motion. I wonder if your unit is working right.
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Post by johnjsgems on Nov 20, 2010 22:11:03 GMT -5
Sounds like too much grit if it is a 4 lb. unit. You should not see water period. A lot of people rinse the rocks and put them in the hopper dripping wet. I would try a couple of teaspoons of grit and start it up. If it moves well let it run. Watch for action to slow and spritz with a spray bottle (or add drops of water) until action returns to start up action. Hopper should be full also.
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Post by tortuga on Nov 20, 2010 22:58:34 GMT -5
Too much grit it was. Grit and smaller stones had cemented in a solid mass in the bottom 1" of the hopper, which most likely made the shape of the hopper not work for circulating the goods. Seems to be moving just fine now. Should I be going for all the white ceramic pieces and all the rocks to be totally grey? I can still see the color of the stones, and the filler is not coated entirely.
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Post by johnjsgems on Nov 20, 2010 23:14:44 GMT -5
Let it run a couple of hours at least and check everything is coated with grit. You can sprinkle in small amounts of grit if you think you need it. Same with water add very small amouts and observe before adding more. Vibes need a lot less grit than same size rotary would. Pretty much all vibes when using too much water will result in grit settling to bottom and will actually wear a groove through the bowl about an inch from bottom.
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Post by deb193redux on Nov 26, 2010 12:39:20 GMT -5
a thin gray slurry, with plenty of color showing through, with a few streaks of thicker more opaque slurry. Over time as mud builds, add a few drops of water. Eventually it will be so creamy that it is not grinding even if there is still motion. time to change.
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