westcoastwelder
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2010
Posts: 16
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Post by westcoastwelder on Sept 25, 2010 10:48:23 GMT -5
Howdy,
I live in Fort St. John, and it is winter nearly 2/3's of the year. The last of the freezing temperatures is the end of May often and the first frosts are mid-September. Anyways I am going to be doing the majority of my rock work- tumbling, sculpting, shaping etc- in an unheated garage. We may end up throwing a couple heaters in, but it won't be tropical by any means.
I was wondering if anyone had used an additive to water to tumble their stones to prevent them from freezing. It will be on average around -20 for the winter with low points of -40. I realize that running any equipment at super low temps isn't good, so I'm talking tumbling at around -10 to -15. Can some of the water be replaced with an alcohol or thinner of some type, or will this have adverse effects on the rubber? I have yet to construct my tumbler so this can be considered before it's assembled. What else am I missing in this equation?
Thanks
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 25, 2010 10:58:59 GMT -5
I haven't tried it, but anti-freeze might work. It doesn't effect rubber radiator hoses, so might work in a tumbler. Remember though, that stuff is poisonous, so keep it away from kids and pets. Maybe someone on here knows of something safer to use. Another thing you could try is to build an insulated box to fit over the tumbler, and put a 40 watt light inside for some extra heat.
Don
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Post by catmandewe on Sept 25, 2010 11:20:27 GMT -5
I tried the anti freeze in my tumblers one year, it really slows down the tumbling action, enough so that it doesn't seem practical to use. Not sure if it is because it slicks the rocks up, or changes the viscosity of the mix or what but I had to tumble for 2 months in the cold to get what should have been done in a week or two. I would build an insulated box to put the tumblers in, the heat from the motors might be enough to keep it from freezing, but if not, put a heat lamp in there.
Have a great day............Tony
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westcoastwelder
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2010
Posts: 16
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Post by westcoastwelder on Sept 26, 2010 5:31:12 GMT -5
Great idea, that would also double as a noise dampener! I just got a space saving idea as well, if I build the box sturdily enough with a removable top or side, it could double as a table base for some of the other equipment. How does alcohol, glycerol, thinners etc affect the rock chemically? There is off-gassing as I've read through the process, would this have a negative reaction somewhere? With the insulated box I shouldn't need anything to lower the freezing point, but it never hurts to know more.
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pporky
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2007
Posts: 1,932
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Post by pporky on Sept 26, 2010 6:04:08 GMT -5
Hi and welcome to the board Sounds like a good idea and if you build the box big enough you could also get out of the cold..Bill
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 26, 2010 9:40:24 GMT -5
-40, your a little low on that. I have worked in -50 in the Komi Missile fields. Try to find a waterbed heater. It has a thermostats built in. Much safer than light bulb.
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 26, 2010 10:11:29 GMT -5
Another thing you could try is one of those heated grow mats that people use for starting plants indoors.
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revco
starting to spend too much on rocks
Another Victim Of The Rockcycle
Member since February 2010
Posts: 162
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Post by revco on Sept 26, 2010 10:35:10 GMT -5
This is an interesting question. I think the idea of building an insulated box is a great idea...and the supplemental heat is also a good idea I don't work in extreme cold conditions here in MT, but the theory of it would work, I think. Personally, when winter comes around, I move my operation into a spare bedroom and keep the door closed. It does add some noise, but with the door shut, it's barely enough to even notice it.
I'd be reluctant to use additives, mainly out of concern for the health of the tumbler barrel and a concern for a possible chemical reaction with something in the rocks. I don't think any of the additives would cause troubles with the relatively inert makeup of grit/rubber, but there's no telling the chemical makeup of various rocks.
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redrummd
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 38
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Post by redrummd on Sept 26, 2010 10:39:53 GMT -5
A heat rock that is used in reptile tanks is probably the most durable and safe heating element to put in the enclosed box. No wires exposed to fray and it can be moved around inside easily.
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Saskrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2007
Posts: 1,852
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Post by Saskrock on Sept 26, 2010 11:24:48 GMT -5
I bet you could use rv antifreeze instead of water. Its about the same viscosity as water and non toxic too.
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Post by rockrookie on Sept 26, 2010 16:43:20 GMT -5
out winter temp in PA is much warmer than that . but i am planning to try windsheild washer fluid , in my tumblers that stay in the garage this winter . --paul
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Sept 26, 2010 16:56:39 GMT -5
A heat rock that is used in reptile tanks is probably the most durable and safe heating element to put in the enclosed box. No wires exposed to fray and it can be moved around inside easily. Too much of a chance of electrical shock using one of these!! You know that you're gonna to want to cut and end off just to see what's there , then all of a sudden it's in the chop saw and someone's getting electrocuted!!! NEVER give a rock to an RTH member and tell them they can't cut it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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westcoastwelder
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2010
Posts: 16
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Post by westcoastwelder on Sept 27, 2010 6:10:09 GMT -5
Hahaha you know that's not even that far off... I do happen to have a couple heat rocks from when I had scorpions, and even some heat tape I used to run along the bottom of the terrariums.
I have all the lumber and plywood ready to go so all I'm gonna need is some insulation, I'm thinking 1 1/2" blue sytrofoam. I should have also added that the shed/garage/shop is not insulated either. So despite being unheated, if we were to add some heat sources it wouldn't stick around.
bushmanbilly- the coldest I ever worked in was -45 in the oil patch, thats as low as the trucks thermometer would read before it bottomed out,, that was a cold day of pulling wrenches outside with wind howling. I worked in the petitot area for a couple winters and it gets bad up there, the cold you can deal with but the wind is what gets you!!
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Sept 27, 2010 9:17:12 GMT -5
Should you build an insulated box for your tumbler [excellent idea], be careful of overheating and cooking the motor. Built a tumbler for a fellow club member, he built the box, and that's what happened. A motor running in a box makes lots of heat.
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tomcloss
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 158
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Post by tomcloss on Sept 27, 2010 18:18:45 GMT -5
I live in Michigan and last winter I built a box which I kept war with a space heater set very very low. In most cases it never turned on because the motors from the tumblers in it put off enough heat.
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 27, 2010 18:35:03 GMT -5
I think I would drink the alcohol and then move South.
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Post by susand24224 on Sept 27, 2010 19:29:20 GMT -5
If you don't drink the alcohol and move south, you might want to check into a chicken coop timer. I have one, if memory serves me correctly, it was about $20.00. It simply plugs into a socket and then (in the chicken coop) a heat lamp is plugged into the timer. It is preset to turn on at 35 deg. and off at (I think) 55 deg. In an insulated box, you could probably use a 60 watt light bulb.
Most large poultry mail order catalogs carry them.
Susan
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westcoastwelder
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2010
Posts: 16
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Post by westcoastwelder on Sept 28, 2010 2:07:33 GMT -5
Should you build an insulated box for your tumbler [excellent idea], be careful of overheating and cooking the motor. Built a tumbler for a fellow club member, he built the box, and that's what happened. A motor running in a box makes lots of heat. So you would say a heater may not even be necessary? I realize that the motor will put off heat, I've had a ton of exotic pets and such over the years, and on my 250 gallon fish tank my sump pump created enough heat that I didn't need to put a heater in the tank until winter. I also have some heat sensitive plugs from my 5 foot iguanas cage, but it's set to a tropical temp range, and to save overheating the motor etc., I would think we want to keep the temp in the box around 10* Celcius? I picked up the pulleys, bearings and shafts today, I'm still waiting on the motor from a friend at work. My brother in law is an electrician so I'll ask him to wire up a switch. As far as drinking and moving south... that may be in the works in a couple of years after my apprenticeship is finished, then I won't have to worry about this cold nonsense.
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 28, 2010 8:30:46 GMT -5
Most have to deal with keeping motors cool. In the extreme temperatures you have to deal with I don't think the motors will overheat. A thermostat with heater or light bulb would be a good back up idea in case. If the motors created too much heat you could add vents or remove cover as needed.
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Post by jakesrocks on Sept 28, 2010 8:49:26 GMT -5
Greenhouse vent openers might work to keep things from overheating. They're like a small, heat sensitive shock absorber. At about 75 degrees F. they start to open vents to let in cool air. They'd be easy to hook up, and don't need electricity.
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