RockyBlue
fully equipped rock polisher
Go U.K.
Member since June 2006
Posts: 1,719
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Post by RockyBlue on Nov 17, 2010 21:27:26 GMT -5
Why is everybody blaming Obama? All his problems was inherited from the previous adminstration. Remember this and it`s a world known fact.Bush lied and a lot of our soldiers have died..........Rocky
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 18, 2010 18:24:20 GMT -5
Hmm a lot of us folks blame Obama "in part" because when a car is being driven towards a cliff as it was when Bush started overspending, the answer is not to pull a " Thelma and Louise" and drive faster. The answer is to slow the Hell down. Obama is trying to correct a spending problem by simply spending more. Is that what you do in your house when times are tough and you're going broke? Heck no! A person with a lick of sense slows his spending and cuts what he buys until he can afford to start spending again......Mel
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RockyBlue
fully equipped rock polisher
Go U.K.
Member since June 2006
Posts: 1,719
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Post by RockyBlue on Nov 18, 2010 20:49:10 GMT -5
I agree with you Mel,no problem there!I think he has tried to do too much to quickly and trying to please everybody.The general public has bitched so much he was forced to do what he has or hasn`t done.I try to keep an open mind but sometimes i think it`s impossible to do..............Rocky
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Post by parfive on Nov 18, 2010 20:57:35 GMT -5
Government stimulus in the face of a recession/depression is pretty much mainstream economic thinking*. And again . . . don’t forget a third of the stimulus was tax cuts**.
Now let’s put the horse back in front of the cart and question the need/desire/wisdom for tax cuts during wartime.
* Yeah, I’ve seen Cato’s list.
** On the books this time.
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 18, 2010 21:00:53 GMT -5
Obummer inherited a 3 trillion debt from Bush. In 2 short years he's managed to stretch that out to a 13 trillion debt. Hmmmmm, lets see now, 3 trillion in 8 years, versus 13 trillion in 2. ---- Don
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 18, 2010 21:31:20 GMT -5
Rich, you're obviously a "new dealer". I flat hated studying that part of American history as I found there was so much conflict over the ideas of the new deal. Kind of came to the conclusion that nobody actually knows what ended the great depression. That is apparently where the beginning of the big government, big union mantra suddenly became the supposed cure for depression/recession and a crap pile of the socialist programs that are bankrupting us today got started. However, a good half of the economists disagree and say the depression was extended till almost 1942 because of the intervention of big government. Cole and O'Hanian from UCLA concluded current economic study shows that recovery from the great depression would have been more rapid had the government not stepped in. Still kind of a liberal vs conservative type thing. Liberals want to trust capitalism but really don't. They want daddy government to babysit everyone with all kinds of big government programs. Conservatives believe in capitalism but don't trust big government. I suppose we can all draw the conclusion we see as most correct based on what is happening today, but to me, Obama's policies seem destined to grow debt and extend unemployment and recession. I'm still waiting for the fat lady to sing or the other shoe to drop ( ie real estate bombs) before I'd be willing to concede anything being done so far is creating a real recovery.....Mel
PS: I didn't do great in college history as I was attracted to a lovely young lady in the class so was distracted, but there is a lot to read on this kind of economic theory, so if you are really interested in seeing which side sounds right, there's a lot of great writing on the subject.
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Post by parfive on Nov 18, 2010 23:38:35 GMT -5
[The national debt was over $10.6 Trillion the day Obama walked in the door, and the deficit for his first budget was gonna be ~$1.3 Trillion before he added a nickel.] Ring . . . Ring . . . Hi, Don? . . . Put Jake on the phone, maybe I can talk some sense to him. ;D [paws] Hi, Jake? I got Ronald Reagan’s budget director sittin’ here, lemme put him on the phone. [Woof] Hi Jake, Dave Stockman here. Betcha didn’t know ‘The second unhappy change in the American economy has been the extraordinary growth of our public debt. In 1970 it was just 40 percent of gross domestic product, or about $425 billion. When it reaches $18 trillion, it will be 40 times greater than in 1970. This debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.[Holy woof!] In 1981, traditional Republicans supported tax cuts, matched by spending cuts, to offset the way inflation was pushing many taxpayers into higher brackets and to spur investment. The Reagan administration’s hastily prepared fiscal blueprint, however, was no match for the primordial forces — the welfare state and the warfare state — that drive the federal spending machine. Soon, the neocons were pushing the military budget skyward. And the Republicans on Capitol Hill who were supposed to cut spending exempted from the knife most of the domestic budget — entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects. But in the end it was a new cadre of ideological tax-cutters who killed the Republicans’ fiscal religion. [Grrrr!] Through the 1984 election, the old guard earnestly tried to control the deficit, rolling back about 40 percent of the original Reagan tax cuts. But when, in the following years, the Federal Reserve chairman, Paul Volcker, finally crushed inflation, enabling a solid economic rebound, the new tax-cutters not only claimed victory for their supply-side strategy but hooked Republicans for good on the delusion that the economy will outgrow the deficit if plied with enough tax cuts.’ G'nite, Jake. [Woof woof] www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 18, 2010 23:53:54 GMT -5
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jerryde
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2005
Posts: 246
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Post by jerryde on Nov 19, 2010 0:29:04 GMT -5
Why don't we all go back in time and blame Lincoln for the Civil War...or maybe George Washington just should of stayed in the other side of the river that cold winter night...Hell, he's the one that got us all in the mess we have today...Right...?
Or maybe Columbus should of stayed home...then we certainly would not be having this stupid conversation...
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 19, 2010 9:59:21 GMT -5
If the Republicans hadn't lost their way and kept the government to Constitutional limits, the Capitalist way would have worked fine. Instead they got fat and lazy and caved to the Democrats. Now we have a frankenstonian gargoyle for a government.
Hopefully the people have instilled in them that we are not going to stand for this any more. If not, we will just have to start over again in the next election cycle.
Curt
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Nov 19, 2010 11:26:01 GMT -5
If the Republicans hadn't lost their way and kept the government to Constitutional limits...
C'mon...lets be real here...they Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda but lets face it...they didn't, did they.
They were for limited government, before they were against it
They were for balanced budgets, before they were against them
They were against deficit spending, before they were for it (and in the case of Reagan Republicans they were for deficits (when Reagan and Bush were Presidents) before they were against deficits (when Clinton was President) before they were for deficits (when Bush was President) before they were against them (when Obama was President)
Charlie
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 19, 2010 12:14:29 GMT -5
The same goes for both sides of the playing field.
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Post by parfive on Nov 19, 2010 15:04:38 GMT -5
Curt: "If the Republicans hadn't lost their way and kept the government to Constitutional limits, the Capitalist way would have worked fine."
Sorry, Curt, the capitalist way crashed and burned two years ago. Aided and abetted by government, yes, but still a self-inflicted, catastrophic failure.
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 19, 2010 15:09:15 GMT -5
So true. It crashed when Obummer and his Socialist friends were voted in.
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 19, 2010 16:46:07 GMT -5
Man you hit that nail right on the head Rich. Capitalism crashed when Obama took over and now we are going to have to dig our way out of this horrendous mess.
Curt
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Post by parfive on Nov 19, 2010 17:24:00 GMT -5
Oy vey!!!! Two chronologically-challenged ******s. ;D
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Post by texaswoodie on Nov 19, 2010 18:17:36 GMT -5
What I don't get Rich is why you and Charlie are Hell bent on destroying what made the U.S. the greatest nation the world has ever known. Why don't you guys pool your money and move to Greece where the Socialist are alive and well. Bankrupt, in the middle of chaos, but alive and well. I hear you can retire at 50 and have "free" healthcare and all that your hearts seem to desire.
Curt
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Post by parfive on Nov 19, 2010 18:31:19 GMT -5
Curt: “ . . . and now we are going to have to dig our way out of this horrendous mess.”
Well, somebody helped dig GM out of a mess, NO THANKS to these nitwits:
Rep. John Boehner (R-OH): “Does anyone really believe that politicians and bureaucrats in Washington can successfully steer a multi-national corporation to economic viability?”
Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL): “It’s basically going to be a government-owned, government-run company. …It’s the road toward socialism.”
RNC Chairman Michael Steele: “No matter how much the President spins GM’s bankruptcy as good for the economy, it is nothing more than another government grab of a private company and another handout to the union cronies who helped bankroll his presidential campaign.”
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC): “Now the government has forced taxpayers to buy these failing companies without any plausible plan for profitability. Does anyone think the same government that plans to double the national debt in five years will turn GM around in the same time?”
Rep. Tom Price (R-GA): “Unfortunately, this is just another sad chapter in President Obama’s eager campaign to interject his administration in the private sector’s business dealings.”
Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX): The auto company rescues “have been the leading edge of the Obama administration’s war on capitalism.”
Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ): When government gets involved in a company, “the disaster that follows is predictable.”
Every one of those dickheads was proved wrong.
And somebody dug up a financial reform law - as weak as it is – to put the brakes (more likely just a parking brake) on the biggest bunch of pirates in history. Now guess who might resent even a tap on the brakes for these psychopaths? Too tough? Hint: see list above.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 19, 2010 18:46:58 GMT -5
A bit premature on the GM predictions guys. has to hit like $53 before they're out of the woods and the taxpayers get their money back. Not above 35 and change so far and it dropped today. Sometimes IPOs really take off but not this one. Gonna be awhile before this government intervention can be declared a success.
Curt: Our lefty members don't really want to destroy the US. They're just afraid of a US where folks have to stand on their own two feet without big brother government propping them up. They've just never outgrown having the babysitter look after them when they were kids and as adults, want the government to take over that role so they can feel safe.....Mel
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Post by parfive on Nov 19, 2010 20:37:01 GMT -5
Mel – Regardless of whether Uncle Sam breaks even or even loses some on the deal, it’s had a huge benefit for a relatively small investment. Of course, that’s only if you think the backbone of what used to be American manufacturing prowess was worth trying to save.
As for the big brother/babysitter bit, take a hike. I retired at 57 w/no public pension, SS, or disability proppin’ me up.
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