fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
|
Post by fmelvis on Jan 1, 2011 10:05:36 GMT -5
Happy New Year everyone!
4 weeks into the coarse grind and all is well so far.
Does anyone use a Dremel tool to shape and grind sharp edges from rough to shorten the process and grind away bad bits of rock?
Can anyone recommend a model and proper dremel bits to do such work? Is this the second step to rock mental illness?
Frank
|
|
|
Post by jakesrocks on Jan 1, 2011 11:46:50 GMT -5
Welcome Frank. Answer to your last question first. YES !! If you're going to try shaping and cleaning your rocks with a Dremel, get the flex shaft and hand piece to go with it. You'll want to do your grinding in water to flush away rock grit, keep dust down and cool your grinding bits. You'll want a good selection of diamond bits. They'll do a better job and last longer. The bits that come with the Dremel kits are meant for grinding metal, wood and plastic. As for which Dremel to get. Get the best that you can afford. The cheaper models won't last long.
Don
|
|
|
Post by tntmom on Jan 1, 2011 12:35:17 GMT -5
I love my dremel and use it to make preforms out of slabbettes! I also use the flex shaft and prefer diamond cutting wheels. I use the flat side of the wheel as a mini grinder. I have a selection of diamond burrs too, but like the wheels better because I can roll the stone against the wheel and get a smooth edge. Also with any diamond bit, use a lower rpm setting and lots of water! Don't use your dremel over water, make sure you buy the flex shaft attachment for this!
|
|
lloyd1wv
starting to shine!
Member since December 2010
Posts: 47
|
Post by lloyd1wv on Jan 4, 2011 17:07:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by deb193redux on Jan 4, 2011 17:39:27 GMT -5
a rotary tool offers great flexibility in removing/smoothing areas of stone and can also drill. They offer precision, and in fact some people use different burrs and tips to intricately carve stones.
it does take time and you can wear down tools fairly fast.
a good option for smoothing larger areas is a tile saw where you develop a little skill at using the side of the blade as a kind of poor man's grinder. the cost is in the same ballpark as a rotary tool and flex shaft. an advantage is that sometimes (like when the rock has an overall V or L shape) the need is to cut it in half not smooth down the V or L until it is an I - that would take forever.
another option i the same price range is an inexpensive glass grinder that used 1" diamond grind drums. You can get them in 80 or 100 grit to help smooth imperfections on the stones so that a little time in 60/90 can perfect them.
it is surprising what increased capability you can get for about $60 to $120 investment.
|
|
guitarc
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2010
Posts: 77
|
Post by guitarc on Jan 4, 2011 18:26:46 GMT -5
deb193redux,
I have heard of using the side of a tile saw blade on a tile saw to do some minor grinding. Would you designate a cheap tile saw to perform just this function? I guess my concern would be that applying pressure to the sides of a blade. Would repeatedly doing this mess up the tile saw for normal trimming use?
What type of glass grinder are you referring to?
Thanks
Chris
|
|
carloscinco
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2008
Posts: 1,639
|
Post by carloscinco on Jan 4, 2011 19:05:12 GMT -5
I use a Work Force tile saw to cut and shape stones before tumbling. It cuts the rough cycle from months to a couple of weeks on average. I use the side of the blade for shaping. The uneven wear on the blade edge causes the cuts to veer a bit depending on which side is most worn. A small price to pay for having better control on the final tumbled shape. I buy the cheap 7" diamond blades (3 for $19) which last for about 4-6 hours of continuous cutting.
|
|
|
Post by tntmom on Jan 4, 2011 19:39:26 GMT -5
|
|
guitarc
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2010
Posts: 77
|
Post by guitarc on Jan 4, 2011 20:52:50 GMT -5
carloscinco,
So do you also perform regular cuts with that Work Force too? Does one cheap 7" blade last 4-6 hours of continuous SHAPING/GRINDING? I take it that you try to use both sides to shape so it evens the wear on both sides of the blade?
tntmom,
That is what I was thinking. For about $50 a Q.E.P. or Harbor Freight Tile Saw could be designated just for that purpose. I'm still curious if this type of use could dish a blade or ruin other saw components.
Chris
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Jan 4, 2011 21:51:55 GMT -5
You won't dish a tile blade without a lot of effort. They are very thick. You can grind with the edge as well. If you buy a 4" saw make sure it is a 5/8" arbor. Then when you start cabbing you can use it with a 4" lapidary blade to trim with.
|
|
chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
|
Post by chromenut on Jan 5, 2011 0:02:40 GMT -5
I needed some new wheels for my Dremel so thanks for posting this. I just got a heck of a deal, here's what I got off ebay for $10 (make an offer): The guy has many more if anyone is interested. Has them for $13.99 but I made an offer at $10 and it was accepted immediately, free shipping too. Should have gone for $9!! lol Here's the seller's listing - Neyronix Diamond Cutting Wheels. I also bought a package of 10 x 40mm cutting wheels for $7.99 free shipping, simply because I like the extra depth. Most of the wheels you'll find are 1" or 25mm. That give's you about 3/8" to work with. On the 40mm you get about 1/2" to work with, and the extra depth comes in handy when shaping preforms.
|
|
drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
|
Post by drjo on Jan 5, 2011 6:59:54 GMT -5
That's cheap!, let us know if you have to glue the diamonds on yourself ;D.
Do post their quality, seriously.
Dr Joe
.
|
|
chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
|
Post by chromenut on Jan 5, 2011 9:05:48 GMT -5
Thanks Joe, will let you know....oh my, I'm a poet now...lol
Yes, I started to buy some diamond wheels and noticed they were from China, then found this deal, so I called Van Nuys and spoke to them to get a feel. Seemed to be really nice people, said they could give me some references if I really wanted. Good thing is I'm buying American made!
I'll likely be using these as soon as they arrive, they already are in shipping and were scheduled for delivery tomorrow but I got an email last night from UPS saying they will be here today, so may find out sooner than I thought. I already have several thin preforms that I want to shape up, so really kind of excited to have a new toy to play with. First got a new Dremel a month ago, now some nice diamond bits!
|
|
|
Post by deb193redux on Jan 5, 2011 10:38:12 GMT -5
deb193redux, I have heard of using the side of a tile saw blade on a tile saw to do some minor grinding. Would you designate a cheap tile saw to perform just this function? I guess my concern would be that applying pressure to the sides of a blade. Would repeatedly doing this mess up the tile saw for normal trimming use? What type of glass grinder are you referring to? Thanks Chris I had one of the original WOrkForce, which got famous for having a strong motor and a better than average blade. I got about 20 hours of trimming, making small slabbetts, and rounding edges. If I used it to hack into bigger rocks form all sides so I could split them, then I got about 8 hours. The new WorkForce is nothing special compared to other tile saws. Most tile saws have uneven surface right next to the blade and you have to make sure small preforms do not tip down into the space. It is needed to allow the top to lift over the blade and/or set the saw for 45-deg tile cuts. Some models with plastic tables (usually 4" models) open up form the middle and do not have this problem around the blade. I got my sister's kids the $50 HarborFreight model, but the arbor is 1" and you have to buy their blades. For a while I did all trimming and small slab making on my old 10" BeaconStarr, but wanted to have a more portable saw to take over to a friends house for all day summertime trimming sessions on the driveway, so I picked up a 7" and a 4" tile saw. Round xmas Homedepot had some $50 tile saws that were pretty good. The motor runs very quiet, and the blade was OK. I went back and got another one for my friend. (The one they regularly have is $88). I bought the 4" for $44 at HarborFreight. I like the design but the motor is loud. Very very loud. I wish I had gotten the MK 4" saw form RockShed or JsGems for about $100. It is not much more when you consider that it comes with a $40 MK 303 blade in addition to the tile blade. Anyway, I am running thick blades on both the 4" and 7" saws right now, but I did buy a very thin blade for the 4" for special use. Since there is no uneven opening around the blade, and since smaller diameter thin blades are less likely to bend, I wanted to put my thin (.012) blade on the 4". So far I have not had much precious enough to bother changing out the blade. IF you are only cutting $2 to $4 tumble rough or average agate/jasper slabs, the extra material consumed by thick (.050, 0.065) blades is not a problem. The thicker they get the more like a grinding wheel they become. Keep in mind you wanted a grinding capability and the fact that the wheel is thin enough to also cut is a bonus. I would not buy $40-$50 MK 303 7" blades if you plan a lot of grinding. The Mk-200 or other $12 to $20 blades work fine. Some ebay 3/$12 deals can be real stinkers that only cut clay pottery - so be careful going too cheap. They do splash a lot. Some people use them backwards or rig shields. I used my WorkForce sitting down in a laundry tub in the basement, or outside on a patio table. I like to keep a small trickle of water running onto the saw at all times to keep the water clear and the table free of gritty pieces. As for glass grinders the Gryphette is usually about $75, but goes on sale for $38 about once a year. It will come with a 1" medium drum. You can get course (and even fine if you want it) 1" drums or get 1/2" or 1/4" drums on ebay or from glass studio supply houses. I recommend the TwoFer brand as the cheapest. Some hobby shops carry them too. If you go the Dremel/Flex shaft route, pick up an extra collet set ($10) that handles small drill bits down to 1mm. Most grinding burrs have 1/8" or 1/4" shank and will work in the default collet, but if you want to drill a hole about 1.25mm, you will need the alternate collet to hold a shank that narrow.
|
|
charles kuchar
spending too much on rocks
getting ready for the second coming
Member since November 2010
Posts: 300
|
Post by charles kuchar on Jan 5, 2011 15:05:27 GMT -5
i am still confused over using the tile saw for grinding. my idea of grinding is my 100grit 6" grinding stone on my arbor. i can understand using the tile saw to cut parts of the rock away but don't understand grinding unless the diamond blade can be replaced with a 7" grinding wheel blade? charlie
|
|
|
Post by deb193redux on Jan 6, 2011 14:12:42 GMT -5
no replacement. you are somewhat inefficiently using the 7to 10mm of sintered diamond on the sides of the blade to shape/grind without cutting. This would be no different form having a 1" grinding wheel, but using the side of the wheel instead of the 1" edge. Like I said, it is an inefficient grinder, but still a fairly inexpensive and flexible option to have around. More precisely working each stone with the dremel can be more time consuming, but if you mount a cutting wheel on the Dremel, you obtain a kind of mini lap, so you can see there are many low-end approaches to the issue of flawed tumble rough.
Sometimes you can tilt a slabbett/preform and drag it backwards across the blade and towards you to put a rounded bevel on the preform. For nuggets, you would be using the sides to make flat spots where there are pits or crevices, or using the blade to cut a stone in half at the point of a deep crevice or flaw.
|
|
george
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2011
Posts: 2
|
Post by george on Jan 14, 2011 11:04:18 GMT -5
chromenut, Have you tried the new wheels yet that you got off ebay? Do they fit your dremel? I sent the seller a question asking if they fit the standard 1/8" dremel mandrel and haven't heard back yet. If they do I want to order some. George
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Jan 14, 2011 11:57:44 GMT -5
Tile blades can be used to grind due to the hard matrix the diamond are in. They do a lousy job cutting compared to most lapidary blades (same diamond, softer matrix) but grind well. They work really well in stacks of 6-10 blades for poor man's super grinder.
|
|
aimeesrockworks
spending too much on rocks
I really do look like my avatar... it kinda freaks me out.
Member since December 2010
Posts: 458
|
Post by aimeesrockworks on Jan 14, 2011 13:00:36 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic, but I wanted to toss in my Ebay diamond burr bit experience...
I had been purchasing bits from Widget Supply, until they stopped carrying the size I needed (panic attack!) so I took the plunge and ordered bits directly from Hong Kong of Ebay.
So far they've lasted me just as long as anything I paid 10x's as much for. I do get a dud every once in awhile, but I'm getting 30 bits for under $10... they normally sell them in a range of sizes but actually shipped me a set of the single size I needed (the translation was strange, but it all worked out in the end).
THK Diamond Tools is the company name
|
|
chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
|
Post by chromenut on Jan 14, 2011 13:02:50 GMT -5
chromenut, Have you tried the new wheels yet that you got off ebay? Do they fit your dremel? I sent the seller a question asking if they fit the standard 1/8" dremel mandrel and haven't heard back yet. If they do I want to order some. George Fit perfectly George, and the mixture I bought came with two mandrels even though I already have a dozen or so for my dremel. I've used two wheels so far and they seem to be holding up well. I'll post pics this coming weekend. Slightly off-topic, but I wanted to toss in my Ebay diamond burr bit experience... I had been purchasing bits from Widget Supply, until they stopped carrying the size I needed (panic attack!) so I took the plunge and ordered bits directly from Hong Kong of Ebay. So far they've lasted me just as long as anything I paid 10x's as much for. I do get a dud every once in awhile, but I'm getting 30 bits for under $10... they normally sell them in a range of sizes but actually shipped me a set of the single size I needed (the translation was strange, but it all worked out in the end). THK Diamond Tools is the company name I've been buying from THK for about a year now. In the photo below, the grinding bits on the right are about 6 months old and the other two sets are three months old. So far they've functioned flawlessly. The set at the bottom is the one I use at least once a week, mainly for drilling holes or fixing up imperfections. So far, so good. All three sets cost me less than $10 each!
|
|