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Post by Original Admin on Apr 12, 2006 4:28:30 GMT -5
If the vote goes yes - then i'll have to figure a way of structuring it so that the topic of the posts in the forum would be the name of the vendor.
I personally reckon things are as best they can be - with members quickly catching on to a duff trader and then making it plain for all to see.
I dont feel via my reading that anyone in the boards are only here to sell and nothing else - its not what im seeing.
A forum which lists someone as a bad trader also potentially opens up some legal issues - or does it?
Not sure exactly what would be written in such a forum - by whom - and how it would be organised.
All views welcome of course.
Mark.
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Post by Toad on Apr 12, 2006 5:36:33 GMT -5
Nah, we pretty much complain when and where we need to.
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Post by sandsman1 on Apr 12, 2006 6:31:58 GMT -5
i think we can use the good bad and ugly section same as with buying outside the forum and just try and keep it civil just the facts and maybe something like must have a pic for proof of the complaint---because iv seen someone make a complaint on ebay and when the seller seen it he makes stuff up just to make the other person look bad because they said it out loud and didn't just sit back and take the loss--- hey it happened to me with astro gallery remember he came here and tried to make up a buncha lies about me to try and make me look bad so there has to be some kind of rule that you have to show proof of your complaint and rebuttal or i can see it gettin out of hand
also maybe a no reply deal where only the two involved are aloud to post and everyone else should only read and not reply simply don't post in the same one if you haven't had a bad experience with the same person this way i think it wont get out of hand with all the other replies---- this way the message gets out without fanning the flame---
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Terry664
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2005
Posts: 1,146
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Post by Terry664 on Apr 12, 2006 6:33:17 GMT -5
I voted no, but I feel that if you have a complaint, or good things to say about vendor it should be in vendor forum, not in general rocks area.. Also I feel like some others, that issues about vendors or other members in general, should always be addressed by pm first, before slamming in a public forum. The general rocks board is getting overloaded, I come in to read posts and find some that were posted yesterday, a couple of pages back. I feel a lot of the other forums should be used more than they are. Just my opinion. Terry
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Post by NM Stone Supply on Apr 12, 2006 7:27:30 GMT -5
I voted no. I think things should be worked out with PM's or E Mails. I have been on both sides before. The buyer who feels like he got ripped off and the vendor who made a mistake. Some things did not get worked out through E Mail and ended up as a arguement with lot's of people in the forum. Things did get worked out on the forum and everyone ended up happy. Remember to give people a little time to respond to PM's or E Mail before sending them to the good the bad and ugly. It may take someone a couple days to get back to you. Thats my opinion
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WyckedWyre
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2007
Posts: 1,391
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Post by WyckedWyre on Apr 12, 2006 7:47:43 GMT -5
No. Blah blah blah blah blah. Disputes should be resolved in private. We already have a forum for THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY. S
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on Apr 12, 2006 8:55:08 GMT -5
I think Mark is right... There is always the possibility of legal liabilty with this sort of thing.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Apr 12, 2006 9:43:17 GMT -5
I voted no- I'm really on the fence- but we seem to be pretty good at weeding out the idiots as they come up (I won't mention certain multi-personality member(s)) I say leave it to us to drag these people out in the open (I.E. the general; board or the vendors board) and beat them like the dogs they are- ooops I mean have a civil debate over their alleged business practices.
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Rose
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2004
Posts: 875
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Post by Rose on Apr 12, 2006 11:43:25 GMT -5
I think it very likely could Mark, as you are the owner of the board it could come back on you if someone said something about a vendor and you have no way to verify anything.
IMO I think the good/bad vendors sections is enough.
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181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
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Post by 181lizard on Apr 12, 2006 12:33:43 GMT -5
What was the phrase they used to say in olden days? Something about "giving the cut direct." The person could be there but they were treated as if they were not.
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Post by Cher on Apr 12, 2006 13:47:09 GMT -5
I also voted no. Being an admin myself, I'd much rather see things handled via pm's and emails, but I have no problem with things being dealt with on the Vendors forum if the emails and pm's don't fix things.
I think it would be good for everyone to learn some Trading/Selling Etiquette too. It's something that has worked very well in my other hobby forum.
1. Communication: The most important part of a trade is good communication between trade partners. Be totally upfront when planning your trade. Be specific about whether you have rough or slabs. Details, details, details. If you have all the details, there should never be a bad trade. Nearly everyone has a digital camera so use them. Make sure your trade partner knows exactly what they are getting and follow through with it.
2. Even Trades: Generally pound for pound, especially if it's local rock. If it's something special, there may be a difference in the poundage but make it plain up front! Don't leave someone thinking they are sending 20#'s and getting 20#'s if you have no intention of doing that.
3. Records: Don't rely on your memory, CRS hits everyone. Write it down, do a spread sheet, whatever - but record it so you don't screw up.
4. Shipping: Perhaps you have a bunch of stuff that you know you'll never use and would like to get rid of some. You can always trade for shipping too. You'll make some space and not be out any $$ for it. There's plenty that would be happy to get something different to tumble for the cost of shipping.
5. Ask For References: Don't be afraid to ask if they have sold or traded with anyone else. Any seller/trade with common sense would be happy to offer them.
6. Check Their Post Count: Buyer Beware, if someone posts a trade or sale and they've only got one post, you know darn well they are new. Get to know them before you deal.
7. What To Do If You're Not Happy With Your Trade? If you haven't had the sense to follow the rules of etiquette, I could say, "Tough something or other" but I won't. *smile* Don't go running to a forum and post anyone's name. Contact the person first and tell them you were not happy and explain why. Be pleasant, in most cases if there is a problem, your trade partner will work something out with you. If you're not successful, boil them in oil ... j/k ;D Let them know they will face the wrath of the forum as it will be posted. =================== I do have to disagree on two points. There definitely are some who are here only for selling, they really don't care anything about the forum except how much $$ they can make from the members.
Also, legal issuse. If you're speaking the truch about someone, how can that be liable or anything else? I wouldn't let that stop me from mentioning someone's name who had screwed me on a trade or sale if they won't make it right. It's no difference than positive or negative feedback.
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Post by hermatite on Apr 12, 2006 14:45:16 GMT -5
I also voted no. I think there's already enough scrapping going on without adding a whole section dedicated to it.
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Post by deb193 on Apr 12, 2006 14:53:21 GMT -5
I voted NO, but maybe for narrow reasons instead of all-out opposition to the idea. 1) I am not sure the concepts are clear enough. We have a vendors section designed to let members know about people and places out in the world (not here) selling things we want. But some members are vendors in the sense that they have shops, online stores, or ebay sales. Some of these member/vendors don't really sell here (like Kim) and some walk the line (like Jason), and some only sell or trade for profit (like you know who). Also, someone can happen to sell something to another member, like used equipment, but that occasional sale does not make them a vendor. The concepts are fuzzy and overlapping. It has never been real clear how to handle these different situations in the vendors section. Even if we could definitively sort it out, how would future members come to the same understandings. 2) Complaints about a sale and complaints about a trade are different critters, although complaints about a lack of cooperation/responsiveness does bridge the two. The former can certainly go to the vendor section, but if the vendor is a member, a few PMs should still come first. 3) I think a lot of the problems might go away if there was some guidelines (like Cher's post) nailed down on top of the buy/sell/swap section. These guidelines might actually encourage members to post pictures of what they get/send so others can see what's par for the course.
Heck, I would even be in favor of someplace besides member's photographs for such pictures. maybe no followups allowed. 4) I think we should have an ethic (almost like a board citizenship responsibility) of reporting successful trades and occasional member-to-member sales in the general section, or if it is something interesting to see, in a photo section. Regular sales from membors who are vendors can be put in the vendors section. People should not feel pressured to gush praise. Saying, went smooth, or as expected, or as described should be what gets said most times. maybe pleasantly surprised on the plus end, and some issues had to be worked out on the bottom end.
Even more serious reservations can be politely stated, for example "Georgia Queen Picture jasper has less pictures than some and can be soft toward the outside, I can recommend this trade to someone who wants the new specimen, but anyone with particular needs might want a picture first." OR, "Some online vendors might have better rough from time to time, but getting to interact with another member was part of this trade's appeal. These are civil, but informative.
Even a more negative situation could just say, "I misunderstood ___, or he/she forgot to do ___, but we worked it out." OR "Expectations/understandings did not play out and we were unable to resolve the matter."
The more we model these behaviors, the more others will know how to act and be good board citizens, and the less opportunity for scammers, who count on the silence of the people they scam. So I voted NO, but would love to see some or all of these ideas get into play.
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Post by parfive on Apr 12, 2006 14:56:22 GMT -5
I voted to keep the status quo. What's in place now has obviously been working, overtime, the last six months or so. The board is up to 13 forums now. Five of them now cover most anything that can be complained about: 1 Vendors 2 Buy, sell, swap 3 Board issues 4 Life, universe . . . (George Bush, taxes, the price of oil, bad jokes, good jokes, bugs, Paris Hilton, etc) 5 General . . . (my tumbler, my grit, my rocks)
Now that winter is over for most of us, here's hoping for a calm and peaceful spring and summer.
Rich
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Post by sandsman1 on Apr 12, 2006 16:14:12 GMT -5
i just hope after all the talk and ideas i see which i think are good ones -- that after anyone has tried to make it right even if you never get what you should have, will take the time to make a post or if you don't wanna post it in the forum let someone know what happened so it don't keep happing from the same person-- cause when i was told there where many (13) people that had the same thing happen and no one said anything till the end my stomach was in knots -- that could have been taken care off after one or two trades and the rest of the victims would have not been screwed-- i know no one wants to put down another member but if we don't look out for each other then who will??
cher i agree 100%
I do have to disagree on two points. There definitely are some who are here only for selling, they really don't care anything about the forum except how much $$ they can make from the members.
Also, legal issuse. If you're speaking the truch about someone, how can that be liable or anything else? I wouldn't let that stop me from mentioning someone's name who had screwed me on a trade or sale if they won't make it right. It's no difference than positive or negative feedback.
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turnedstone
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2006
Posts: 766
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Post by turnedstone on Apr 12, 2006 18:52:23 GMT -5
I say no we manage fine like it is now. George
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Post by akansan on Apr 12, 2006 19:43:48 GMT -5
Cher, I think the legalities come into play when you go beyond just the facts and emotion takes over in a post. Saying a trade went sour is okay. Specifying how the transaction went sour is okay. But if you say the person is only out to get people, is a liar, a cheater, a purple-meat eater...you venture close to slander and defamation of character. If the place has a business license, it gets even trickier as defamation of character equals loss of livelihood.
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Rockygibraltar
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,404
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Post by Rockygibraltar on Apr 12, 2006 20:40:29 GMT -5
I voted no. At first it sounded good but I can't see a way to make it better than it is now. The current forum gets the job done and leaves room for a change of heart.
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Post by Original Admin on Apr 13, 2006 4:27:03 GMT -5
Ok - thats not going to change for the mo I think at 97% I'll sticky the post of guidelines by cher from this thread to the top of the board on buy and sell swap.
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