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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on Mar 31, 2011 18:34:22 GMT -5
Some people like drama and have to stand on their soap box to correct and anal ize every one or things they see as imperfect. A mirror is in order for that one
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Post by sandsman1 on Mar 31, 2011 20:30:36 GMT -5
I thought this board was to encourage Rockhounds and to add helpful comments not slam them, and if someone pees in your corn flakes that day, Keep your comments to yourself as they won't be nice or friendly. Donna
well said donna --- if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything -- i prob had some of the worst rock around when i first came to RTH and i never herd one put down or jab at anything i posted -- i prob wouldnt have gone as far here if it were the other way around -- i had messed up my back and was stuck in the house for a couple years so i started tumbling to have something to do plus i couldent do much more then that i blew out three discs -- so im glad the people that were here were so nice
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Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Mar 31, 2011 22:07:05 GMT -5
The following errors were found with your message: You are blocked from sending messages to deb193redux Dan Bontempo....................from the Willamette agate mineral society, Club News letter. The Great Dan Bontempo ? was the clubs field trip organizer..... Sept - 08 - 2008 till present Thanks Dan..................... piss`ed me off then, though know i`m fine with it. nice to have ya out of the yard of Oregon. Jack Cole Send Personal Message Subject: CLICK HERE TO VISIT THE MAIN ROCK TUMBLING HOBBY WEBSITE Google Web forum.rocktumblinghobby.com Click Here To Make This Board Ad-Free Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi#ixzz1IEiqQUZZ
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Post by Woodyrock on Apr 1, 2011 0:58:54 GMT -5
John is is right on about the Turritella, the darker the matrix the better, but no matter what colour it is, the stuff smells like a tide flat , at low tide, on a hot summer day.
That said, where did the red obsidian come from? Russia supposedly has red obsidian, but every bit that has come out of Russia, and been tested has turned out to be glass. There is a Flame obsidian found at Glass Buttes, Oregon that is a very clear material with small tongues of red, but there is no solid red found there. Woody
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on Apr 1, 2011 8:44:14 GMT -5
Woody, thanks for the insight about Red Obsidian and possible issues with Russian material. This thread may not be the place to address it, but it's concerning to me that there are getting to be so many fakes out there. There's nothing wrong with being economic and trying to be aware of economic reality to keep stones affordable, but I think there's a lot of long-term harm being done to the hobby when people support the producers of fakes, reconstituted stones, etc. Maybe I'm wrong but just look at what has happened with faceted stones. The market is flooded with fakes and lab grown stuff -- even large supposedly reputable jewelers boldly sell them. It creates a feeling of "why bother, then?" or at least it has with us. Our faceting machine has gone up on a high shelf for the nonce. Why bother to study and create so that the average person will think you're wearing some cheap bit of chemical grown in a Russian lab? It troubles me that some very skilled and respected posters here, whose gifts I sincerely admire, are using reconstituted stones. I don't want to come in as a noob and start throwing around criticism and worry. These people know their business, and they are a lot more advanced than I am. But I can't help but be concerned about this problem. To me, it's very real. Maybe I'm just silly. But the fakes have truly harmed the faceting hobby in my view, and I fear that they will harm our hobby as collectors and/or cabbers if we don't make the fakery unprofitable.
At the same time, I have no desire to "pee in the cornflakes" of posters who have contributed far more time and knowledge than I am qualified to do. I don't want to call anyone out or create even more to-and-fro about personalities. I just wish that people would maybe slow down a little on the use of the fake stuff. Or if I'm wrong in my fears, tell me why I'm wrong. I've been on the internet a long time, I'm not afraid of finding out I might be wrong about something! It has happened before and will happen again...guaranteed.
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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on Apr 1, 2011 9:01:22 GMT -5
the way I see it on the fakes stuff, its been around as long as the real gems and stone have. I don't bother to worry about things i cannot change or impact as there is more time than life.
I will have fun with my stone and wire as long as I have life and leave the worries to others about the fake stuff.
The fake stuff has its place too, for those who cannot afford the real stuff
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Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Apr 1, 2011 10:43:38 GMT -5
Oregon has nice red Obsidian with no black mix`ed in.
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Apr 1, 2011 10:49:38 GMT -5
Guys and gals, lots of correct statements here, but some of you miss the boat by much more than a mile. There is a HUGE difference in constructive criticism and an outright attack. Dan seems to think that HIS opinions are the only one's that count, and he NEVER responds in a constructive manner - that is to comments back to him about his 'destructive' criticism. If you have a child who can not walk straight (my daughter for example), and you are trying to teach that child to walk, with straight being one goal, you don't shout out at the top of your lungs and then lecture that child for going off track. You nudge them back on, tell them how good they've been doing and help them understand where they went wrong.
Why dash someone's hopes by telling them the work they did was sloppy? That DOES make you an ahole, don't care what anyone else says but it surely does. I'm still a beginner here, will be for years, my opinion there are so many people here more talented than I am, so I seldom offer criticism. And my eye is easy to please, I don't care if the angles on a cut aren't perfect, nor do I care if the direction of a slab cut is not correct.
So, again, Dan likes to hear himself speak, even his responses are so lengthy that I never read all of them, just too much BS there. But like I said earlier, he does offer some really good criticism, sometimes. If he could just muzzle that mouth of his and make his critique less scathing, try to be friendly, then he'd be more acceptable here.
I truly believe he's well intentioned. I truly believe Dan is a talented person. I truly believe he doesn't mean to start an argument over his over-aggressive posts. I TRULY BELIEVE DAN HAS NO INTER-PERSONAL SKILLS!!!
This happens with many overly intelligent people. I have several friends who are generally not socially acceptable and find it very hard to make friends. They are what I'd call "hyper-intelligent", and zero social skills. That doesn't mean they are bad people, it does mean they are lonely though, because most people don't want to spend the time trying to figure them out.
My first experience with Daniel was what I thought was a personal attack. Really, I did. Then I searched him out on several other posts here then followed him on a couple of other boards. Gee, the guy is the same everywhere he goes. He actually takes our angry responses pretty well, but he's completely and totally socially inept. I mean I feel sorry for him and wouldn't mind counting him as a friend if he'd just calm his comments a bit and understand that his comments are often very hurtful.
Anyway, just my two cents worth.
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Post by jakesrocks on Apr 1, 2011 11:05:55 GMT -5
Well spoken Robin. I've been in this hobby since the early 50's, and have picked up "pretty rocks" as far back as I can remember. I don't make any claims to know everything there is to know about rocks or this great hobby of ours. If I see someone heading off in the wrong direction, I try to advise them in the kindest, most gentle way I can. I try very hard not to be harsh in my criticism, though at times I've had to bite my tongue. I value my rockhounding friends, just as I hope they value me as a friend. If I ever come down too heavy on a fellow rockhound, I hope that my friends will point out the error in my ways, and I will do my best to correct my errors. Don
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Post by Roller on Apr 1, 2011 11:17:06 GMT -5
Hey guys the red obsidian comes from greatrough.com but please note that the description says Red Obsidian has a lot of pits in it from the gas bubbles that were in the material when the volcanic magma cooled. which means it is extremely very pitty . I got extremely lucky with my piece which has minimal pits in it ... Greg ...
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on Apr 1, 2011 11:22:58 GMT -5
Thanks for addressing that, Greg. I see on their website that it's Mexican material. A new one to me. I have learned a lot today.
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Post by NatureNut on Apr 1, 2011 11:43:32 GMT -5
I know this to be true about Don. He's very patient with people. He's been immensely helpful to me with hounding in his area and a surprisingly numerous amount of other areas I've been to or headed for in my travels in the past year. He's held my hand while looking through many pictures of material I'd collected, and explained how and where to face polish to turn it into a prize specimen. That type of encouragement, the gentle nudging as Robin put it, is key to helping/mentoring and is highly effective. Used it training my horses and dogs, and my three sons. The results are a more secure, well adjusted student. The more successes they experience, the less handholding needed.
Anyway, I'm digressing and adding another :2cents: .
Mary, you wouldn't believe the amount of poorly died Turquoise fakes are here in Quartzsite. It's sickening. In the faceting lab at the G&M club, students acquire and work on the lab grown stuff because the naturally grown stuff is so expensive, and they are still learning. It's like the lab grown material has made gemstones more affordable/accessible to the hobby faceter. The faceting lab at the club had record activity and popularity this season.
So, do they devalue the natural material? I'd think it would make it more rare if the market is flooded with lab grown stuff.
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Apr 1, 2011 11:44:21 GMT -5
Greg Roller...hmm guess we can call him Groller from now on... or maybe Rolleg....hahahah....anyway, still think that Noreen is delicious...
Oh, NatureNut, I agree with all, especially the last part. I play with Howlite quite a bit, to sort of tune up my skills before I tackle all the beautiful Arizona turquoise that I own. To me, it makes the real stuff more delectable. I can work my simple skills trying to make something out of the Howlite, then when I get the skills just right I can take them out on some real stuff!
Anywho, just my way of playing with stuff. I like to test myself out on the fake before digging into the real....
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on Apr 1, 2011 11:53:42 GMT -5
Ah, does the lab grown devalue the natural material? That is the 64,000 dollar question, if you ask me. It certainly doesn't devalue what, say, Harry Winston can charge for his stones. But in my humble opinion only it devalues the stones that you and I could sell. Would you buy faceted stones from another hobbyist these days and give them credit for being real? You can't. I know a man who has retired and is now trying to sell his faceted stones. He can't. Oh, he can let them go for pennies on the dollar on eBay, where again you have to assume that it's all or salted with fakes because it's just so common. Truly, I don't have enough knowledge to say if this is a big problem, but it seems LOGICAL that it might be a big problem.
I know, for me personally, I no longer buy Turquoise. It has been cheapened, for me, because there is just plain too much fake stuff out there. When I was in Instanbul, I joined a tour for a day and of course the bus ends up at one of these huge, glittering gem stores. Do I believe that all of those huge perfect Turquoises set in gold were genuine, or do I believe they were reconstituted? I'll just say, I had my suspicions. Turquoise, to my mind, has become a tourist trap, and that is not good for anyone who works with it, not long term. IN MY OPINION!!!
But I'm only one person and I could be wrong...
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Apr 1, 2011 12:05:12 GMT -5
I follow you... but that's why I own some turquoise and will be keeping it to make something wonderful for someone that has meaning in my life. I got the real stuff, keeping it until I figure something neat to do with it. But I see where you're coming from. I don't mess with many faceted stones, mainly rock. Guess I'd be a bit disappointed if I had to go up against someone selling fake stuff that looks real.
Put it this way - I had one of the nicest compliments paid to me back in the first week of December by one very nice young lady. I had set up quite a large booth under a 10x30' tent a couple of towns over at a craft fair. This nice young lady came by my booth and then wandered on to visit all the others. After a while, maybe an hour or so, she came back to mine. I asked her if I could sell her anything and she said no, she was just looking. Then she kind of started to turn away and turned back, and said, "you know, what you have here is so different from what the others are selling, and your items are just wonderful".
I actually sputtered. Was left speechless, and you all know that would take a lot to make ME speechless. I was shocked. How nice a compliment was that?!? There were four other vendors at the fair selling jewelry other than me. It was so nice to hear that my 'stuff' was that different that I had to go do a walk around to see what she meant. I mean I make what I make to please myself, unless its something someone has ordered specifically. If it pleases my eye and I don't sell it, so what! I get to continue to enjoy it until it's gone. Every piece I make I put a little bit of me in it, so it was oh so nice to hear that my little pieces of me were outstanding amongst my competitors.
Oh, and this is a hobby for me. Not that I don't enjoy selling my items, but if it became more serious than that, the joy of it would wear off and it'd no longer be a hobby. I mean if I did this for a living, I wouldn't be on here posting about it and discussing it with other interesting folks. I seldom discuss my "work" after I get off work, simply because it's the 9 to 5 that pays the bills and is not my passion, although at one time it was.
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Post by NatureNut on Apr 1, 2011 12:18:58 GMT -5
Haha, not just reconstituted, one method is to soak a stone in blue toilet bowl cleaner. And, some are not even using Howlite, they're using a quartz with black mica. I do like the dyed reconstituted turquoise with the metals like Ralph and Mary Ann have. It's very classy looking. But, that's my own opinion, and if you don't like it, you're entitled to your own, and to say so. Have you seen the optical glass? That is getting VERY popular too. Has a chatoyant effect when domed and polished. Almost like a fake man-made Moonstone.
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Post by jakesrocks on Apr 1, 2011 12:35:18 GMT -5
Thank you for the compliment Jo. Always happy to try to help a friend. Maybe one day we'll actually get the chance to meet in person.
Robin, many years ago I used to do leather work, with all of the fancy carving and everything. I did it for my own pleasure. The word got out that I did that sort of work, and soon I was flooded with orders for purses and belts and all other sort of things. It became a business, and very soon the joy of just creating something was gone. I quit cold turkey, and sold all of my tools and supplies. Other than punching a hole in a belt, or replacing a rivet or snap, I haven't touched leather since. The plus side was that it got me back into rocks and lapidary. I do it for my own pleasure, and refuse to let it turn into a business that will control my life. Sure, I sell a piece from time to time, but more often than not, I make things as gifts to be given away. this to me is much more rewarding than any amount of money I could make. Don
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Apr 1, 2011 13:08:10 GMT -5
I agree with you Don, I'm the same with my jewelry, give way more away than I sell....
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Post by sandsman1 on Apr 1, 2011 16:33:27 GMT -5
hey guys i think everyone has had time to say what they needed how bout i start this post over from the first post so we can get back to being friends -- maybe its good this happend so we can all see when we type without thinkin about other members feeling this happens
greg its your thread you decide should i delete everything up to your first post and let it start over ??
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Digforcrystals
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 351
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Post by Digforcrystals on Apr 1, 2011 16:40:51 GMT -5
Why delete it? It is good food for thought.
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