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Post by Roller on Mar 16, 2011 19:00:44 GMT -5
if the blade is 1/32 off slightlywill the slabs will wind up 1/32 off? also if the blade is aligned correctly which is stationary than what difference would aligning the carriage and power feed make ? I would say no difference at all because the only cut that counts is the one touching the rock which is the sawblade and the blades alignment ... geometrically speaking and yes all of my slabs are currently 1/32 off and the blade is slightly off as well .. I changed the alignment which made no difference at all in the slabs!I think its the blade .. tech support is on vacation for a week !
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tgood1969
having dreams about rocks
Member since March 2011
Posts: 63
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Post by tgood1969 on Mar 16, 2011 20:17:44 GMT -5
I recently found that my Highland Park 16" (very old one) was misaligned from the factory, in that the carriage was over 3/8 of an inch off from front to back. This was not an adjustment issue as the mounting holes had no slop in them for adjustment and the blade and arbor both ran true with the box (all square).
In this case, the back of the carriage was moved away from the blade so as rocks went past the blade, they moved away. The saw still cut flat/even slabs but when I used an inexpensive blade, the variation would cause the thin blades to deflect and eventually become misshapen. I don't know if any of this applies to your situation or if it is helpful at all but it could be. If the carriage had been off in the other direction, it may well have created such an issue.
I re-drilled the back mounting holes and moved everything to about 1/16" of true over the entire length of the carriage. This still allows the rock to move ever so slightly away from the blade to prevent undo pressure but it does not warp the blade now as it did.
In my case, the misalignment did not affect the slabs unless the blade began to flex due to the added pressures and heavy blades did not have any problems. The slabs were still true from end to end even on large slabs.
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Post by deb193redux on Mar 16, 2011 20:26:45 GMT -5
yes, I can't completely follow you statements about alignment and stationary, but I do agree that there may be little/no issue with a much thicker blade.
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Post by Roller on Mar 16, 2011 20:39:26 GMT -5
Hmmmm .. Has anyone had problems with green blazer blades??
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Gem'n I
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2008
Posts: 980
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Post by Gem'n I on Mar 16, 2011 21:01:44 GMT -5
I guess I would have to ask how did you determine 1/32 off ? If I remember the best way to measure this alingment is with a mag base dial indicator attached to the vise (X axis) checking the blade (Y axis ) for runout at several spots on the blade surface...you should be able to tell if this is a problem from the readout or total indicator reading (TIR)....I would think more than .015 from X axis is a problem. Then you get into feeds and speeds versus hardness of the material...that would present another issue for blade deflection which can also be a contributor to what you are expierencing.
Larry
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 16, 2011 21:21:12 GMT -5
I think he is saying his slabs are not flat. I thought that saw came with a Yellow Blazer? Their Green Blazer is slightly different than the "Green blades" a lot of people use. The Chinese green blades are pretty thick.
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Post by tandl on Mar 16, 2011 21:52:51 GMT -5
i think where talking about square if your slabs are not square?Greg?is that what your saying?in a way i think Tgood was talking about?if your rock is cutting, unlikely your blade is the problem , likely your not square ...
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Post by Roller on Mar 17, 2011 1:56:26 GMT -5
yes perfectly square they are not ... just 1/32 of an inch off ... the part of the slab closest to the motor which is the back is 1/32 less than it should be while the other end closest to the person cutting is just fine ! ... what can i do to fix this ? and no it came with a green blazer ! john ... 1/32 isnt bad but it"s annoying for a brand new saw ... i tried changing the alignment and it doesnt help any ... I would like to push the alignment a little to the rightin the back of saw but the lip that holds the carriage into place doesnt allow this as it will start to bind and catch .. ... I hope its the blade ... any tips Thanks!
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Post by deb193redux on Mar 17, 2011 9:12:50 GMT -5
the end of the slab where the cut starts, closest to the motor, is what it is. That is the true thickness. It sounds like during a few inches of cutting the cut the blade then walks 1/32 of an inch into the rock/vise, so the the last part cut is a little thicker.
The question is whether the blade is walking (deflecting out) or if the corresponding end of the vise/carriage is shifted toward the blade. This effect would be constant and additive. If you cut a shorter distance is the taper less? Roughly how much is the taper per inch.?
I think the blade is deflecting, because if there is a slight lack of squareness of the carriage/vise to the blade, it would only be noticeable on the 1st slab. subsequent slabs would be OK.
So a stiffer blade is a good bet.
You can also try cutting a block of rock only about 1" high. The blade should keep up better and not deflect. Or get a block of something easier to cut like a wonderstone. If these slabs are OK, then you have more evidence it is the blade.
But, overall 1/32 is very small. I am not sure I ever checked my slabs for such a small taper.
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Post by tandl on Mar 17, 2011 9:43:31 GMT -5
If you can`t adjust the carriage to the right on that end, can you adjust it to the left on the other ?
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Post by Roller on Mar 18, 2011 10:08:23 GMT -5
yes Tandl ..and i tried that and it made no difference ... I seriously think it is the blade because the blade swings slightly to the left when i check it with a pencil in the vise ... I havent tried real small rocks yet .. redux the taper appears to be gradual from one side to the other but is consistent no matter how many slabs i cut ... by the way the vise and rock is on the right side of the blade on the left .. and yes 1/32 isnt bad but if i was to sell these slabs as a business i would be wasting an extra 1/32 of material times how many slabs i sell ...if it was used i wouldnt complain but its brand new and should be precision checked before leaving factory as noted in description ..ill know next week when i get to cut again with a new blade
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Post by fishenman on Mar 18, 2011 13:55:08 GMT -5
Gotta be the blade Greg. I used a .30 blade in my 10" slab saw for two years. (1977 Star Diamond, well worn). On the harder rocks the blade actually got pushed over to the edge of the slot in the table and ground it wider in that spot on both sides. After some cuts, the blade was smoking and was totally pushed into the table slot. The slabs did have a slight taper of 1-2mm.
I tried to align things and the only thing that worked for me was to go to a .40 blade. The stiffer blade keeps things much more even and I did not adjust anything, just the thicker blade and making sure the vice starts in the middle of it's "wiggle" Your vice should be nice and tight though. It's not that much thicker and the waste is minimal.
Geoff
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 18, 2011 14:08:17 GMT -5
If your blade isn't already dished, try hand feeding your vise until you get a starter groove in your rock. Unless you're cutting against an already cut surface, when using a power or weight feed, the blade will try to follow any curve in the rocks surface. This is especially true with thinner blades. Don
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Post by deb193redux on Mar 18, 2011 16:49:37 GMT -5
overall the waste from a thicker blade or from a very slight taper is not really a factor in the efficiency. So much material is lost to end-cuts and to re-clamping, or to reorienting the material to chase the best scene/pattern, or just to the unfortunate geometry of roundish rocks. While not 65% (or more) waste like in faceting, there is often considerable waste in slabbing. A slab is priced for its overall size and usable area and rarity of the material. A few grams difference due to 1/32" difference in thickness is jut not on the radar as far as waste goes.
The saw should have been well designed and appropriately aligned when shipped. But any linear motion (carriage) is going to have some slop and one that is only a few hundred will not be anywhere near as precise as CNC machines or such. Also there is some level of acceptable runout in the blade, and there is some possibility of the blade walking a little if the cut is not starting perpendicular.
I think you will get better results with a thicker blade, and if a carriage adjustment is possible it should be made, but I do not think "perfect" is an option on a semi-commercial 10" slab saw. I realize you did not buy the cheapest lightweight hobbyist model, but you did not pay for heavy duty precisely aligned continuous duty commercial production model either.
In the end what is "perfect"? Would it be a problem if they were 1/64" different in thickness? As long as the taper is not readily noticeable, I think the slab is considered perfect - especially considering it is likely destined for a grinder where nothing of the parallel faces will remain in the finished dome.
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 18, 2011 20:27:56 GMT -5
Greg, I checked and it is their (Raytech) 5" saw that comes with Yellow Blazer. Your saw comes with a Green Blazer, .040". Should be thick enough. Are the slabs noticeably tapered or did you measure to find out?
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Post by Roller on Mar 18, 2011 23:41:20 GMT -5
john I measured and measured and measured and measured ... always the same result ... deb i see ur point ... but ya know i did wanna do jewelry boxes one day as well and who knows what else ... well lets not jump the gun yet ,,,, they sent me a new blade but unfortunately because of recent events i doubt ill be using it for a lil while ... ill get back ta yas .. Thanks again Greg
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Post by deb193redux on Mar 19, 2011 11:04:30 GMT -5
yes. boxes does demand more precision.
I think John's point was not "did you measure to make sure" but rather "could you see this or did you have to measure to detect it?" - two different questions.
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