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Post by bobby1 on Mar 31, 2011 15:36:44 GMT -5
I'm going to be writing an article for a lapidary magazine on what I call Woodward Ranch Red and Black Plume but in researching the material I found a number of different possible names. Ron Gibbs in his book "Agates and Jaspers" called it Woodward Ranch Moss Agate. On a web site for the Woodward Ranch agate collecting they had the possible names as Red Plume Agate - Alpine or Marfa Black Plume or Woodward Ranch Red Plume (also a possible name of Black or Brown Plume). So here is my question: What do you know it as? 1. Woodward Ranch Moss Agate 2. Woodward Ranch Red and/or Black Plume 3. Red Plume Agate - Alpine 4. Marfa black Plume Here are some photos of the material that I will be selecting from for the article. A doublet that I made with the Quartz on the back Some slabs. Thank you for your help. Bob
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Post by texaswoodie on Mar 31, 2011 15:47:22 GMT -5
I've heard it called WWR Red Plume and Marfa Black.
Great cab!
Curt
I'm thinking I read the Woowards claim it's the only place that you can find red plume. If that's indeed the case, I would go with WWR Red.
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Post by rockmanken on Mar 31, 2011 16:21:00 GMT -5
Wow! Those are gorgeous. All I cut of the black is full of pits, but looks good backlit. Also have several of the orange swirly plumes. Yes on the WWR red, also. My 2 cents worth, Ken
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mossyrockhound
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Post by mossyrockhound on Mar 31, 2011 16:28:27 GMT -5
Those are awesome pieces Bob, no matter what you end up calling them. That doublet is killer! I would vote for
"2. Woodward Ranch Red and/or Black Plume".
Garry
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 31, 2011 21:07:13 GMT -5
Always called it Woodward Ranch Plume agate. Comes in many colors so I add the color if necessary ie: Woodward Ranch red Plume. There is moss agate at Woodward too but moss is not plume as it does not have the feathery structure but rather is combined filaments and stringers. The Marfa agate comes in a ton of varieties too, black plume, bouquet plume in many colors, black and white and black and blue fortification agate etc....Mel
PS: Woodward says that but: Lots of red plumes other than Woodward. Brenda, Carey, Paul Bunyan, Canadian River, Rio Grande. Lavic, Horse Canyon, Sonora, and a pile of Oregon types too. Just check out the agates with inclusions website.
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rockwizz
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Post by rockwizz on Mar 31, 2011 21:26:25 GMT -5
Nice pieces...hope you find what you are looking for
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Post by sbreed on Mar 31, 2011 22:42:13 GMT -5
I know exactly what the agate is. The official name is Woodward Ranch Plume. What you have there is Woodward Ranch Plume with a couple of pieces that contain the elusive Woodward Ranch Red Plume. Picture 3 looks like part of the new vein I found while babysitting the ranch while Jan and Trey went to Odessa for doctor appts and groceries. The vein was on the hill accross the dirt road from the cattle pens by the house. I am still so sad that Trey passed away. He was a wonderful man. I can help you with more information if you want to PM me.
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jspencer
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Post by jspencer on Apr 1, 2011 0:22:03 GMT -5
It looks like that was cleared up as for getting a name. The feathery/fern looking spots are called dendrites and they sometimes fool people into thinking they have a fossilized fern or moss. So in a general class it would be a dendritic agate but further broken down to the name by its location.
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Post by 150FromFundy on Apr 1, 2011 6:24:56 GMT -5
An agate by any other name is still an agate? Rose told me that!
Darryl.
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Post by akansan on Apr 1, 2011 8:45:58 GMT -5
What they all said above, lol. Woodward Ranch Plume. The moss from WWR has a bunch of different varieties as well, including moss so densely packed it looks like solid jasper.
Marfa - that's a different locale completely, I think? And the plume/color combinations are slightly different than WWR plumes.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 1, 2011 10:11:42 GMT -5
Yep, Woodwards used to lead field trips to Marfa but Marfa is a different town and the Marfas area has a different sort of agate than Woodwards.
Hate to quibble over terms but plumes and dendrites are not the same structure ( though lots of folks confuse, plume, dendrites, sagenite and moss in common names). I suppose you could say some plumes are dendritic, but not all. And though both occur at Woodward, most Woodward feathery structures are plume. Dendrites are tree like structures that usually develop where manganese or iron salts have infiltrated the agate along a fracture. Plumes are usually composed of platey structures that are more, I guess you'd say fluffy or feathery, and mainly build up from the exterior of the nodule or vein. I've actually found nodules where the plume grew but was not surrounded by agate so it was like little coral fingers growing from a base attached to the skin of the hollow nodule. Montana Agate, Amethyst Sage or Indian Mocha stones are good examples of dendrites. Woodward, graveyard Point, Paul Bunyan, Priday, and Marfa Bouquet are good examples of plume. At Woodward, you can sometimes find all four ( moss, plume, sagenite, and dendrite) in a single nodule.....Mel
PS: Zenz further defines dendrites as primarily two dimensional while plumes are three dimensional. Having cut hundreds of both, I'd say that in most instances this is correct. many Woodward and Marfa plumes are so three dimensional that if bisected, you can see they even have interior color differences and Woodwards often have black on the insides and red on the outside.
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stefan
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Post by stefan on Apr 1, 2011 10:42:39 GMT -5
WOW Mel! I have some of the Woodward plume that is lacking in the surrounding Agate- It is very unusual stuff, kinda fragile too
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Post by bobby1 on Apr 1, 2011 11:01:26 GMT -5
Thank you all for the information. Clearly I should be calling this material Woodward Ranch Plume, either red or black depending upon which is most prominent in the piece. What I'm going to be showing in my proposed article is how to make cabs with the black where the plumes can be more clearly emphasized and seen. What I have found with most of the black plumed material is that it is so dense that any cabs made of it end up being just black, dense uninteresting cabs. Even when the slab is rather thin (usually too thin for a normal cab) the black plumes are not easily distinguished. Now off to the workbench with a name, a camera, slabs and hopefully not a lot of distractions (OH, darn - I've got to start prepping our display for the Santa Clara Valley show in two weeks). Bob
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 1, 2011 12:05:06 GMT -5
Stefan: Yep those specimens are cool and fairly uncommon at the ranch. I've only found a couple in four trips and each time, someone has admired them and I've given them away. They certainly are interesting though.
Bob: I've found that with Woodward black plume too. Black on black plume doesn't show up very well except in transmitted light. Interestingly enough, much of the Marfa plume does not have that problem as there, the black is often against a clear, blue or white backdrop. Man, I love plume agate! Those are some beautiful examples you've posted!....Mel
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Post by johnjsgems on Apr 1, 2011 13:29:53 GMT -5
Mel, you need to write a book. You do a great job explaining (and correcting without being condescending). I was thinking, dendrites are not plumes when out came your post. As usual, once you explain something there isn't much to add. I will say I always pictured plumes as "plumes of smoke". Until you described them as feathery I never thought of plumes like feather plumes.
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jspencer
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Post by jspencer on Apr 1, 2011 15:24:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation Sabre52! That was some useful information for sure. I am an admitted novice to working with rocks that I have collected over the years. My love of fossils and rocks hit me before the age of 10. With the help of folks like you guys like me get a little smarter. I guess us old dogs can learn new tricks! lol ;D
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 1, 2011 15:39:30 GMT -5
*L* I hope I don't sound like too much of a know it all. My old nicknames at work were Mr Encyclopedia or Cliff Claven depending on who was describing me *L*. Mainly, I've just been collecting like 50 years, have read a lot of books, and have a good memory for regurgitating agate and jasper trivia.....Mel
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elementary
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Post by elementary on Apr 1, 2011 18:58:27 GMT -5
(Hey Mel - you don't come off as a know it all, hmmmm, more like a sage dispensing knowledge to us humble folk struggling through these piles of rocks trying to make sense of them all. )
I am constantly amazed at Mel's knowledge. Some of my favorite rock-hounding times were sitting in his backyard just chatting about rocks (and baby turtles and scorpions and ...) It was sad that it took his moving to Texas for that to happen.
Truthfully, if it wasn't for Mel, I wouldn't have even considered doing the Agate Index series alone. He lends a credibility to the whole project that I can't even approach. (For those interested - the California Index is, at long last, essentially done at 126 pages...should be out after editing by next weekend.)
But this is Bob's thread - so to you - I am always blown away by your work. I enjoy looking at everyone's crafts and cabs, etc, but the level of mastery you have achieved is awe-inspiring and the dedication you have made to quality is evident in both how you treat the material and in the material you work. I look forward to reading the article. Thank you for all the great lessons you have posted here and elsewhere.
Lowell
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 1, 2011 21:00:33 GMT -5
Bob, I agree with Lowell totally! Your cabs are awe inspiring and I look forward to drooling over every one you post and I look forward to your article. I kind of figure it gives us shaky old cabbers something to aspire too even though I must admit, I'll probably never achieve the level of workmanship, nay perfection, that you achieve *S*.....Mel
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Post by bobby1 on Apr 1, 2011 22:11:08 GMT -5
Thank you Lowell and Mel for the overly generous compliments. I do have a question for you, Lowell. After reading Mel's description of plumes, dendrites, moss and sagenite I was wondering if it would be possible to have a subcategory in your lists where we could have the definitions of these above features with sample photos of each where it could be easily found (possibly not embedded in a specific state's list). Maybe it could be expanded in the future to geode types, general jasper types (brecciated, etc). This could be a sort of dictionary to supplement the material in the lists. This may be far too much work to put on your shoulders, though, but it is just a thought. Bob
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