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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 9:38:02 GMT -5
Post by gr on Apr 20, 2011 9:38:02 GMT -5
I was looking thru someone elses tumbling record sheets from '89 - '90. I noticed that they used clay, as an additive in the mix, (doesn't say what kind, I am guessing potters clay or firing clay). I was curious if someone had heard of or tried this. Seems reasonable as a consistant fine grit in the latter stages of tumbling. Maybe 400 to 600 grit range. any thoughts?
Thx......gr
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 9:47:31 GMT -5
Post by 150FromFundy on Apr 20, 2011 9:47:31 GMT -5
Not sure why you would add clay to a tumbling mix. Ironically, the tubmling sluge (rock flour, rock snot, slurry) is clay. All you have to do is de-water it.
I'm guessing this was done to thicken the slurry for some softer matrerial. Sounds about as crazy as adding sugar, corn syrup, or maple syrup to your tumble. That stuff belongs in the kithcen pantry, not the rock shop.
Darryl.
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 11:05:54 GMT -5
Post by gr on Apr 20, 2011 11:05:54 GMT -5
Darryl, It was added to apache tears so I am betting that you are correct in using it to thicken the slurry for cushioning. On futher inspection of those notes I found that only the tears had the clay added. They also added some Dyox; I thought that was a slurry thicking agent also. Thanks Darryl
gary
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 12:53:26 GMT -5
Post by susand24224 on Apr 20, 2011 12:53:26 GMT -5
Gary, I can't remember the guy's name, but the author of "Modern Rock Tumbling" mentioned that he was going to try betonite clay and would post his results on his website. The name of his online store is Little Red Store, but I just checked and didn't see anything posted about it. He has a Q and A section so you might want to inquire of him.
Susan
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 16:50:41 GMT -5
Post by gr on Apr 20, 2011 16:50:41 GMT -5
Thanks Susan, I will see if I can track him down. Holbrook is loaded with bentonite clay. might be an interesting turn
gr
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 17:24:12 GMT -5
Post by 150FromFundy on Apr 20, 2011 17:24:12 GMT -5
The author's name is Steven Hart. The book is awesome and improved my tumbling immenslely. I'm sure he will get back to you if you e-mail him through The Little Red Store. This is the same gentleman that organizes (or judges?) the World Rock Tumbling competition that a few RTHers enter ... and place.
He also has some beautiful Mariposite from California if you want something soft and easy to work for a break. Good luck.
Darryl.
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Digforcrystals
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 351
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 17:40:13 GMT -5
Post by Digforcrystals on Apr 20, 2011 17:40:13 GMT -5
Not sure why you would add clay to a tumbling mix. Ironically, the tubmling sluge (rock flour, rock snot, slurry) is clay. All you have to do is de-water it. I'm guessing this was done to thicken the slurry for some softer matrerial. Sounds about as crazy as adding sugar, corn syrup, or maple syrup to your tumble. That stuff belongs in the kithcen pantry, not the rock shop. Darryl. Please don't take this the wrong way , but your statement that tumbling sludge is clay is totally inaccurate. I just dont want that mis-information out there. Tumbling sludge is the abrasive and whatever type rock is being ground. Clay is composed of decomposed and altered feldspars. Feldpsar in its freshest and purest state is quite soft and once it weathers it turns into clay. This substance is very different than abrasive like silicon carbide and genereally tough rocks such as agates and jaspers. I live not too far from the clay mines where they dig kaolin , so I am pretty familiar with clay.
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 21:16:24 GMT -5
Post by 150FromFundy on Apr 20, 2011 21:16:24 GMT -5
Digforcrystals:
You are absolutely correct. When I threw clay out there, I was thinking more about particle size and behaviour. If you let your slurry settle out and dry, you will be left with a rock like material with particles ranging in size from caly to silt to sand. All you need is a few thousand years and some heat and compression to turn it to stone. As for behavior, if you throw it down your drain, it will also behave like claystone, siltstone, or sandstone.
Clay is from feldspar. Sand is from quartz. Geology 101. I took it, but that was a long time ago. Sorry for any confusion.
Darryl.
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 21:16:30 GMT -5
Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Apr 20, 2011 21:16:30 GMT -5
Just a note to who gives a blank,,,difference between clay and sand..... is one micron.
Sand is 257 microns - 1/8th inch. Clay 0 micron - 256 microns.
Fragment 1/8th inch - 2 inch. Cobble 2 in. - 10 in. / Boulder 10.5 - and up to Meteor, which is up to 599 miles across.
asteroid 600 miles - planetoids
Chart from the hand book, by Lapidary Shop works. 1964 issue. 2nd to last page.
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Digforcrystals
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 351
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 21:22:41 GMT -5
Post by Digforcrystals on Apr 20, 2011 21:22:41 GMT -5
I was just thinking more of the abrasive difference between clay and tumbler slurry.
Clay ( or at least the Georgia clay's and Kaolin mine around here ) is composed of tiny "platelet" type structures and in a water slurry is a type of lubricant.
So when someone was suggesting clay added to a batch they were probably thinking along the lines of a cushioning and friction reducing agent.
That actually might be an interesting and useful idea............
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Clay?
Apr 20, 2011 23:13:22 GMT -5
Post by gr on Apr 20, 2011 23:13:22 GMT -5
Rodney and Darryl, I have some of the tears that came out of that batch and they are excellent. I did post a pic of them some time back but the picture is kinda blurry but the shine is there in the high 9"s
gr
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Digforcrystals
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 351
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Clay?
Apr 21, 2011 7:46:24 GMT -5
Post by Digforcrystals on Apr 21, 2011 7:46:24 GMT -5
For a brief second I thought about the possibilities of using some local clay but instantly thought better of it. Around here the clay is inconsistant with sand particles of various sizes in the mix. That would be fine in the rough and medium grind stages but a big no-no in the fine to polish stages. Refined/processed and graded clay would do the trick though. I live not too far from the kaolin mines where they mine and refine high quality kaolin for everything from medicine , food,paint, paper additives , etc. That stuff would be ideal for tumbling uses becuase it has been highly refined and is a constant particle size. I'll put this on my "to do" list and try to get some. I think it would be good as an instant slurry . I have been using tripoli for this because it is cheap. But tripoli isnt nearly as cheap as a 50 pound sack of kaolin and doesnt have the lubricity of kaolin. Here is a look at a local kaolin mine. That kaolin is a blinding white color! Just above the kaolin layer is often a recent fossil layer of limestone that usually has fossils such as pectin shells, sting ray barbs and shark teeth. The following link shows a day at the mines : www.digforcrystals.com/fossilsGORDON1.html
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Clay?
Apr 22, 2011 11:13:50 GMT -5
Post by susand24224 on Apr 22, 2011 11:13:50 GMT -5
I share the notion that it is an excellent idea for brittle and/or softer rocks. I've never tried it--never had it around when I had something tumbling prone to fractures. It would take some experimenting to figure out how much to use, but it seems in my mind to be potentially very helpful.
Susan
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Clay?
Apr 22, 2011 22:25:50 GMT -5
Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Apr 22, 2011 22:25:50 GMT -5
break up a 80-grit ( Worn out grinding wheel ) to 3/4 minus,
Mix with the stone, level of water 2 in. below a 3/4 filled barrel filled with same hardness of stones. the broken pieces of the wheel they will last a long time in, my 70+ lb drum. i do add 60/90 grit with the 80 grit pieces. slurry come on vary fast, two weeks. i add very little water. Three weeks running.
then wash a change to 220 grit wheel pieces and 220 Grit, Add`ed. water the same.
With the weight i use the 220 grit breaks down fast in the 3rd week running.
the 220 grit wheel pieces, hold up for along time ( Large pieces ) they come out when a recharge for final grit run. I wash an screen the grit wheel pieces out clean rock only with the 220 grit ...2nd run.
Last batch was fire agate and Holley blue top off with small Montana moss pebbles.
With a 2 week run 220 grit.
220 grit, in a three week run in a 24" x 11" drum 1200 grit easy!
lost of rock (Mass) from slurry. i have other rock in same phase to add more.
Cerium oxide in Viking north 45 lb. Vibrator drum. with polish pyramids, from Diamond Pacific. for final polish.
Myself i`d never would muddy up the slurry with more silicate waste in the drum. Clay........
I ha have huge hands on a small key board .... tabs on side s load pages with mess hits
i meant to type this all out.
Jack in Oregon.
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Clay?
Apr 22, 2011 22:35:11 GMT -5
Post by gr on Apr 22, 2011 22:35:11 GMT -5
Jack, now that is something I hadn't thought of - a SiC grinding rock. Might have to try that
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Clay?
Apr 24, 2011 22:48:54 GMT -5
Post by gr on Apr 24, 2011 22:48:54 GMT -5
Hi All, just a follow up about using clay. I (electronical) spoke with Steve Hart, author of "Modern Rock Tumbling", and, He did his testing using Bentonite clay in tumbling and said that they found zero improvement using it. Just wanted to pass this on
gr
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Clay?
Apr 27, 2011 23:43:03 GMT -5
Post by susand24224 on Apr 27, 2011 23:43:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Gary. It sounded like a good idea to me, but that certainly isn't the first time I have been wrong!
Susan
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