unclestu
Cave Dweller 
WINNER OF THE FIRST RTH KILLER CAB CONTEST UNCLESTU'S AGUA NUEVA AGATE
Member since April 2011
Posts: 2,298
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Post by unclestu on May 5, 2011 12:00:32 GMT -5
I just got off of the phone with Dan from Kingsley North. I think I have gotten the information that I need and I would like to share that information with all of you.
First off I narrowed the field to two machines. The Cabking and the Kingsley North all stainless model #1-0674
I eliminated the Genie for financial reasons, as I am raising my sights from getting a flat lap to a full fledged 6 wheel cabb machine. I guess you have to draw the line some place LOL.
From what I was told by Dan the Cabking uses the same grinding wheels as the Kingsley those being the Chinese imports. It is his opinion that they are every bit as good as the Galaxy wheels used by the Genie. Were the Cabking continues with the Chinese imported wheels for the pre polish wheels the Kingsley uses wheels made in the good old USA by Eastwick. Again according to Dan from Kingsley these wheels though not quite as good as the Nova wheels found on a Genie they are in fact a step above the wheels used on the Cabking. In any case either unit can be fitted with Galaxy and Nova wheels if so desired.
Moving on both units utilize an independent watering system for each wheel. In this area the CabKing is more sophisticated in that it employs a water pump as opposed to just a gravity fed system. In addition the Cabking also supplies water to the right and left end wheels adding the possibility of an additional flat lap grinding disk.
The motors on the two machines is also an area of major difference. The Cabking uses a direct drive motor mounted between the two sets of wheels where the Kingsley uses a belt driven motor mounted on the back of the machine. Direct drive motors are more expensive and as a result are more expensive to replace as many of you Genie owners have mentioned in your posts.
Also the Cabking comes with a light which is a $50.00 option on the Kingsley.
In summation the major differences between the two are as follows:
The wheels which again according to Dan at Kingsley are a bit better on the Kingsley machine as opposed to the Cabking.
The water system which is a bit more sophisticated on the Cabking by virtue of additional water feed to the right and left ends and a water pump (which could eventually become an additional repair expense).
The motors in which the Cabking uses a more expensive direct drive set up and again judging from past posts about the Genie is a more expensive replacement part when it fails than the belt driven set up on the Kingsley.
The Cabking has a light which is a $50.00 option on the Kingsley.
Fit and finish in my opinion is better on the Kingsley from what I can see and from what I have read in reviews of the Cabking. The Kingsley is all stainless steel and for a machine that is used around water as far as I am concerned is a no brainer.
Lastly the Kingsley is made in the good old USA.
If I can help it I will not personally contribute to any more of our jobs being lost to cheap Chinese labor.
I hope that this information proves to be helpful to all those in the market for a new machine.
I want you all to know that I am a NUBE and so being my opinions are based upon the limited amount of experience that I as a Nube posses.
Please share your thoughts, opinions and recommendations concerning my comparison between these two machines.
Stu
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Post by johnjsgems on May 5, 2011 12:56:50 GMT -5
The Kingsley North unit I believe is the Lortone stainless steel unit. No way will the Chinese plated wheels last as long as Diamond Pacific Galaxy wheels. I commonly hear DP last 3-4 times longer. I would get the price with DP wheels. You don't save money buying cheap wheels and replacing in a few months. The manufacturer of the CabKing told me his "Soft Wheels" last half as long as the DP Novas. I hear mixed reports from different users but then again every user gets different results. The Eastwind wheels are more aggressive than Nova wheels so would likely last at least a little less. DP was displaying a new 7 wheel (comes with 6) belt drive unit at Tucson. The belt drive reduces cost by about $500 from the Genie. As far as the water supply, I really like the air spritzer system. I've never noticed any cross contamination (I clean pans when they are too sludged to work, too). All the excess water sprays on back of hood, not on me. The coarse wheel pan is separate from fine wheel so that helps, probably.
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Post by christopherl1234 on May 5, 2011 14:08:36 GMT -5
I have a Pixie and a Genie and I think they are excellent machines and I am thinking that they are 100% American made. DP has been great to me whenever any of there products fail ( Which has only happened once and they immediately sent me a new one even though it was a year old sintered burr).
I use my Pixie for soft materials such as opal, rhodochorsite, and turquoise.
Some day I will buy a Titan because they cut so fast.
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Post by johnjsgems on May 5, 2011 14:47:35 GMT -5
Yes, 100% made in USA. They make their own wheels, motors are Baldor.
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Post by Rockoonz on May 6, 2011 10:37:03 GMT -5
The Lortone is also 100% US made. You can purchase the Lortone unit w/o wheels for $430 and put whatever wheels you want on it, and you won't have the underpowered problematic 1/4hp Baldor motor that the genie has, or the plastic and linoleum that warps and falls apart. If you really want to take the chance of cross contamination vs fresh water you can still use a spritzer with an aquarium pump for cheap. www.lortone.com/arbors.htmlLee |
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unclestu
Cave Dweller
WINNER OF THE FIRST RTH KILLER CAB CONTEST UNCLESTU'S AGUA NUEVA AGATE
Member since April 2011
Posts: 2,298
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Post by unclestu on May 6, 2011 10:48:37 GMT -5
Hi Lee,
From what I understood from John at johjems Lortone makes this stainless steel unit for Kingsley North and it uses a belt driven 1/3 hp motor and has a gravity fed fresh water individualy controled six wheel cooling system. As per Johns recommendation I am checking on a price to upgrade to the Galaxy/Nova wheels.
Stu
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,494
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Post by Sabre52 on May 6, 2011 12:06:45 GMT -5
I've been thinking about the K-N stainless unit for my next rig. I've had a Genie for many years ( probably more than 25-30) and have grown to dislike it. Am on about my third motor ( others burnt up and expensive to replace). Had to buy aftermarket spritzers as the old pumps have been running poorly since about year three. Base has bowed like a rocking chair etc etc. The old Galaxy Wheels were great, lasted for years. The last one I bought is a piece of crap and it's rusting badly with all the diamond falling off in patches. I may never buy another of those. The Nova soft wheels are very good and I like them a lot so if I get the K-N rig I'll replace the soft wheels with Novas when they wear out. Would be real tempted to get one of those sintered wheels with deep diamond layer for rough grinding. I really like the idea of stainless steel and all metal construction on the K-N. Under wheel spritzers are cheap if you don't like gravity feed but I actually think simpler is better in most instances.....Mel
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unclestu
Cave Dweller
WINNER OF THE FIRST RTH KILLER CAB CONTEST UNCLESTU'S AGUA NUEVA AGATE
Member since April 2011
Posts: 2,298
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Post by unclestu on May 6, 2011 13:32:18 GMT -5
Hey Mel,
I made up my mind and am getting the KN stainless. Dan at KN will swap the wheels with the Nova wheels and leave the 80 and 220 wheels alone. He feels that they are not bad wheels and they are half the price of the Galaxy. The total with free shipping will be $1,284.00 if I want the Galaxy wheels as well it adds another $95.00. But from what you are saying I think I will pass on the Galaxy wheels LOL
Thanks for your help and don't scratch those bites LOL
Stu
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,722 
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Post by Fossilman on May 6, 2011 14:06:44 GMT -5
I like the advice around here.....I'm keeping notes.
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 11:10:30 GMT -5
machines, machines help... I need advice. Been reading reviews all morning and for days. Here are my options... I don't currently have a shop. I can buy a shop kit thats a 10x10 & purchase the kingsley north 1-0757... or... I can purchase the cabking 6v3 with attachable trim saw, but no money left for a shop... or I can just outright buy a DP Genie with no trip saw & no shop. this is my current budget. I have only used a genie & have become addicted. I've been cabbing for about 6 months, but without a doubt, I'm addicted. any suggestions would greatly help in my above 3 scenarios.
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 11:31:46 GMT -5
machines, machines help... I need advice. Been reading reviews all morning and for days. Here are my options... I don't currently have a shop. I can buy a shop kit thats a 10x10 & purchase the kingsley north 1-0757... or... I can purchase the cabking 6v3 with attachable trim saw, but no money left for a shop... or I can just outright buy a DP Genie with no trip saw & no shop. this is my current budget. I have only used a genie & have become addicted. I've been cabbing for about 6 months, but without a doubt, I'm addicted. any suggestions would greatly help in my above 3 scenarios. |
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 11:32:57 GMT -5
sorry about the double post,... just curious on if anyone sees me or not. Newbie ya know.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2013 11:40:26 GMT -5
I see you  I can't comment on the differences between machines- however- if I were you I would get a good cabber and buy a separate trim saw. I got a skilsaw tile saw 7" from Home depot and got a good blade. That's what I have been using for over a year. I don't think I would have much use for one of those little built in saws. In fact, I am going to be getting a 10" saw as soon as I can. You can get a good wet tile saw for less than 100.00, you can use the blade it came with or replace it with a better one like I did. Either way, I think it's a better way to go. |
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 11:48:36 GMT -5
oh thank you rockjunque. you know how us newbies can be when we get on a forum my husband suggested the same thing about the trim saw. I too thought the attachable trim saw might be able to handle the cutting of a stone about the size of a golf ball as it's truly only made for "trimming". I need to be able to cut stones between the size of a golf ball to maybe a softball. Other stones I buy in slab form. I think you are correct, get a good wet tile saw, maybe order a diamond blade that would fit/replace the one it comes with and I should be set??. well, I thought hope anyway. Thank you so much for the input. I'm ready to purchase, just going back and forth on what to do. I'm so addicted I just can't stand not having my own machine. |
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Post by deb193redux on Jul 16, 2013 11:51:13 GMT -5
This is all consistent what what I thought/understood. However I would suggest double checking that he Kingsly really is made by Lortone. There have been discussions on other forums that cast doubt on this.
Possibly it is NOW made by Lortone, after Kingsly flirted for a time with an imported version. I just do not know.
The complain was about the placing and quality of the spot welds on the stainless, and another complaint about the size of the driven pulley. The stainless unit in question had a smaller driven pulley that the Lortone parts list showed, so there was some confusion. It is possible that this guy had gotten a Kingsly (or Lortone) unit that had the pulley changed. There were some inconsistencies in the thread.
If Kingsly says Lortone is making it for them, that would be good enough for me. I am just saying to double-confirm that given what I have recently read elsewhere.
I do agree with upgrading the wheels a bit.
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 12:04:58 GMT -5
another reply "yeahhhhh", (it don't take much to make me happy) thank you for the input deb193redux. I agree about the Lortone. We have equipment in our club shop made my lortone and I can't believe how old it is and it still works perfectly. I'm amazed. I'm a little worried about a machine with a belt driven motor, however, it's cheaper to repair. I've used nothing but Galaxy & Nova wheels so I am spoiled. However, friends who do this for a living tell me "as a newbie", Kinsley wheels are good wheels too, just maybe not as good as what I'm used to. by the way,.. I've read you can put a Genie indoor and use it. I've had others say... "I dunno, I wouldn't do that, it will make a mess". Well, DP says it's safe enough for indoors,... If I buy the Genie, no money for the shop right now... does anyone truly feel it is safe (in your own opinion) to use these machine indoor, well at least temporarily anyway? I know how to use a Genie and the only mess is what you make yourself. What say ya'll ?? |
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 12:24:39 GMT -5
I just checked out the heading where it says "recently updated post",... why is there a file folder on fire next to the thread I'm on?... LOL, just curious.
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barclay
has rocks in the head
Lowly Padawan of rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 510
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Post by barclay on Jul 16, 2013 12:53:03 GMT -5
Yardrocks. I prefer to work inside and have had no problems. If your cabbing equipment is outside you need to protect it from dust, animals, condensation, rain, etc. As long as you are using adequate water it should not be a problem. I have my saws outside, but that is because they are large, one is messy, and loud. I bought a Genie a couple of years ago after using swap tops for over 10 years and I have never regretted the switch. I think the speed and durability of the Genie justify the extra cost over the Cab King and rivals. I think it is an example of "You get what you pay for". When I go to shows and look at what the vendors are using to make their own pieces, they are almost always using Genies or Pixies and the marketplace is a tough teacher.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 16, 2013 13:12:03 GMT -5
Yes, Dan, as far as I know the Kingsley unit is a made in China copy of the Lortone (just like the Cab King is a Chinese copy of the Genie and by same manufacturer. I just found that out last fall as the manufacturer had them made for Kingsley and put them out available to all his dealers. They look just like Lortone so in my earlier post I was wrong. The idea of buying the Lortone arbor and building your own is not bad. Also, if you can afford a Genie but no shop, the Genie can be used on a kitchen table. The under wheel water system does not throw water like the overhead water units. I have not changed my opinion of the wheels. Eastwind Flex Wheels are USA made but do wear out quicker than the Novas.
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yardrocks
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 8
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Post by yardrocks on Jul 16, 2013 13:38:03 GMT -5
thank you so much barclay and john.... this is exactly what I was needing. "You get what you pay for" is exactly right. I'm very close to going with the Genie. I've never used any other. it's easy, simple to use. sometimes the more bells and whistles you have on a unit, the problems one may encounter. The suggestion to get a wet tile saw, replace the existing blade with a diamond blade and walla,.. there is my trim saw that will also cuts small rocks from golf ball size to softball size, the rest I buy in slab format. I was about to call Kingsley, John, when you posted about the Lortone issue. Good timing you have. I know I want it all at one time,... "But",... I say let's get the Genie with the Galaxy & Nova wheels I'm used to,... work with it inside until I can get a small shop for myself. heck, you only live once. I have no idea why folks say they would not use the machine inside when even the manufacturer says you can. And of course, I would have the trim saw outside (lol, lol) Oh WOW,.. I knew joining this forum today would help me. if anyone else comes up with suggestions, let me know. At this moment,.. The Genie it is!!! Thank everyone so, so very much.
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