|
Post by stonesthatrock on Jun 10, 2011 17:22:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Jun 10, 2011 17:49:41 GMT -5
Wow, that some kinda colorful!
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Jun 10, 2011 18:25:45 GMT -5
Really pretty stuff. I was taking via computer with Lowell about this guy. I've met this guy and he seems a nice enough fellow but kind of wonder whether this guy has a mining claim in the south Cadys or if he is an illegal commercial collector. BLM has rules about collecting for profit from government land without a claim and the Cadys is one of the areas really being hunted out by illegal commercial collectors. In the forty years I wandered the Cadys off and on, I've seen a lot of areas really cleaned out by collecting and since the advent of E-Bay, a lot of folks are really cleaning out certain locations for monetary gain without filing claims. I'm not talking a sale or two but hundreds of e-bay and rock show sales. BLM Barstow has a bag limit of one small day pack of material per day which is for hobby use only, not for sale. I would hope if he's printing posters he'd have a claim but in my discussions with Lowell, none was mentioned. I hope this guy is not out their pillaging the desert and screwing things up for all rockhounds in the area....Mel
|
|
|
Post by stonesthatrock on Jun 10, 2011 20:01:36 GMT -5
mel as far as i know he does have a claim on this rock..... I can't vouge for any other the other rough he sells. It seems like he collects, and his wife, in the cady's. Like i say he's just a rock show friend. I will be seeing him again in Nipomo in aug. There i will also meet Ralph Bishop and Les. i bet your know both of them I can't wait to see les's museum. Back to adam for a min. He is out of work and has been since xmas so he's trying to sell his rough. I know its self collected so he saves money there not having to buy it like me,, lol... I also know he uses a pick and shovel, no equipment. He really loves the desert and takes people on field trips for free. I don't think he is one that will mess things up... I will find out more and if he is........ i will not buy from him again. mary ann
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Jun 10, 2011 22:05:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I've seen him all over, Nipomo, Stoddard etc for years and have had the occasion to talk to him and I have bought stuff from him too. As I said, he seems a fine fellow and was fun to talk to. I can appreciate the plight of folks who are out of work and if he indeed has a claim then he's OK in my book. I do think however that much of what I've seen him selling previous to this more recent discovery was collected from unclaimed areas and unfortunately this has set a bad example that many others are beginning to follow. Again, E-bay deserves much of the blame for this as never have rocks been easier to sell and folks can get them free on the desert (although I've always thought mine cost me more in gas than they were worth *L*). I've even been guilty of selling a few items I've collected myself but man, the scale of some of these guys ( judging from e-bay feedback and the number of shows they sell at) is getting big enough to be considered commercial and is leading to the depletion of our collecting areas. Against the rockhound code of ethics too I might add....Mel
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
|
Post by Fossilman on Jun 10, 2011 22:49:15 GMT -5
Nice colors on those agates...........
|
|
|
Post by stonesthatrock on Jun 10, 2011 23:07:11 GMT -5
i agree with everything your saying, mel. I was told once, that the only person who makes money at selling rough is the miner himself. I tend to believe that. If rocks were my only income, i would starve to death.... lol I'm sure he has sold rock from areas that he has no claim on as many do like you say with e-bay and all. I can never be accused of that having two bad knees i have to buy everything i sell......... bummer lol mary ann
|
|
elementary
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by elementary on Jun 10, 2011 23:18:55 GMT -5
I have stuff to add to this conversation - about the miner, his claims (there are said to be claims in the Cady's - most specifically Sand Canyon), and about the new finds being made in the south Cady's, but I need to run out of the house for a moment to pick up my daughter from a friend's. I'll try to add my comments tonight.
Lowell
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Jun 10, 2011 23:25:10 GMT -5
Yep, getting older kind of sucks don't it? I know my days of hauling heavy packs full of rocks from the hinterlands are long gone. My last trip in to hunt poppy jasper, I packed out 70# of rock plus my gunbelt, pick and shovel and I've got to admit, I was blowing like a steam engine on some of the steep parts of trail and almost croaked before I got back to the truck. Another time I found a boulder in the brush and it took me about three tries to get it a hundred yards up a trail. Now days, if it ain't easy hunting I too prefer to just silverpick my rough. Otherwise, I spend one day hunting a two weeks icing up my knees and shoulders afterward *L*.....Mel
|
|
LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
|
Post by LarryS on Jun 11, 2011 8:40:54 GMT -5
We spoke to this guy and wife while at Yucaipa. They mentioned they had 4 active claims in the Cady's and were in the process of loosing one and were fighting the BLM. They mentioned they had to hike into their claims and couldn't drive to them. Us being in our "golden years" tend to be "float" rock hounders. It's bad enough bending over and picking it up off the ground. Advil & Motrin helps. This younger couple is hard core, short of using explosives and they did display more images showing bloody hands, etc. Nice folks.
Larry
|
|
|
Post by stonesthatrock on Jun 11, 2011 8:45:14 GMT -5
ty larry i couldn't remember how many he had...... 3ell he is hyper, i thin that helps ..hehehe mary ann
|
|
elementary
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by elementary on Jun 11, 2011 11:58:59 GMT -5
Sorry about not responding last night. Forgive my verbosity. It's story time! Adam Deane, the the Agate Guy, co-runs the CFMS south field trips and he is incredibly knowledgeable about the Cadys.
As Mel can tell you, the southern front of the Cady mountains runs for 10+ miles. Much of the eastern side of this front has been hunted since the 1930's. To make matters worse, in the 1960's, an outcrop of rock boasting some really good agate seams got bulldozed and used as filler rock for the I-15 which runs right along the mountains here. Good collecting near the roads is now pretty scarce. About 4 years ago a group of people I know and Adam Deane started hunting farther to the west in Sand Canyon. This place was well-known in the 1950's and many said played out. Funny thing, it wasn't. People started hiking beyond the normal hills and valleys and started finding hillsides either overlooked or forgotten. Adam Deane and John Pickett and Bill Dapue (owner of Diamond Pacific) all came across pockets of material. Adam Deane was the only one who put out claims. The others brought in friends first and then field trips. They wanted to slowly spread the joy of new finds. Adam took the monetary route. Another funny thing. The BLM shut the Sand Canyon Road soon after the claims were filed. It is now a hike to get to them. I believe Deane's Sandy Mesa Agate comes from this area, but I may be wrong.
Now let's move farther West. The access to the farthest eastern part of the Cady's can be done through Pisgah Crater Road, which runs like an arrow from the Freeway to the hills. Pickett and Bryan began hunting in these hills and found some interesting flame and moss. This was last November, less than a year ago. They returned home, pulled out a topo map, and drew a line between the Sand Canyon area and this new area. Then they decided to hike it - 2 + miles of desert. Jackpot! They came across one hill with incredible flame eroding out of an outcrop. Farther on, they came to a long - 100- 150 yards long hillside covered with red moss agate (I've posted pictures of this material. I took Woody there and he took Mossrockhound. Mel has also received some of this stuff to cut and posted photos.) Anyway, the material was PLENTIFUL. The chunks were up to 100 + pounds. Since the road was a mile + away, they hauled their finds back and got ready to come back. I was lucky enough to get invited to the second run. This was 2 weeks later. We hiked the mile to the site. Flame, moss, seam, etc was littered everywhere. At the base of the hill, another flame outcrop dropped finger sized pieces across the sand. We filled up over the hours and hoofed it out. I thought the one saving grace for this spot is it's remote location. You had to lug anything out. When I took Woody there a few weeks later, we hiked in and saw that someone/s had made a road. Two thoughts went through my mind - #1 - Damn! I cudda drove. #2 - It was only a matter of time before this place was stripped.
I made the trip there one more time. Another hill had been found with some red jasper bearing yellow orbs, more flame agate, some incredible tube agate, and more. I watched people load hundreds of pounds of material into the back of their pickups. For some, it was their third trip in the month. I went back over to the hill with the red moss and was aghast. There was precious little left. I found a couple chunks after poking around and when I took it back to the parking spot, one of the guys said: "You got that over there? I thought we cleared that spot." And that p*ssed me off. Throughout the early trips, the guys were saying they didn't want the dealers to get their hands on the place and strip it. Well, they did just as good a job. I mean, they were rolling chunks of material down hillsides and loading them, barely checking them. I wonder what their back yards are full of. As for Adam Deane, I know he has taken a group back there. My club has done a field trip. I know at least three others have. And I know this material is showing up on the internet for sale - and up until a couple months ago - there was no claim on the Pisgah material - and there better not be. But right now, the established rules are being broken, both by selling and by roadmaking.
I think claims are great for saving areas from closure or protecting places you find and want first shot at for development, and the CFMS have been teaching people to post them, but when they are used to close old-school locations (Paul Bunyan in CA, 4th of July and Mulligan Peak in AZ, etc.) then that's misused.
I love being a rockhound, but we are collectors and there is a tinge of obsessiveness in what we do.
Desert Magazine wrote about Sperry Wash (Mel just posted some photos recently) back in the 1960s. It talked about how three guys came across the site, promised each other not to share the site. They would come back later to start seriously collecting. When one guy came back a short time later, the stripping had already begun. My friend saw pictures of Last Chance Canyon's petrified forest from the 1920' - 1930's. A guy brought in a flatbed and loaded it with material. In the 1960's again, Lapidary Magazine published an article about a new field of fire agate in AZ. The weekend after the issue came out, three dozen cars came, as well as two trucks with hired hands. The hired hands evidently picked up anything white on the ground and filled sacks (they had been hired by a CA dealer) and the rockhounds in the cars did what they normally do. Turned out the land wasn't public - according to the letter the AZ Dept of Interior (or whatever they called themselves) mailed to the magazine. What got me was they they said the magazine had the responsibility of knowing what would happen to a site if it was made public. I may hate how the government handles the land, but we can be our own worse enemies. I've seen this in the Cady's.
Adam Deane has several claims. I've not seen his table, so I cannot vouch for what else he may have been selling. I did, though, have an interesting run in with him when he came to visit my clubs show a year ago. It soured me a little. He was knowledgeable, nice, easy enough to talk to. But the end result, I came away with the idea that he cared a little bit more about rocks and their worth than maybe the people he interacted with. I could be wrong, but that was my impression.
I hope this wasn't boring.
Lowell
|
|
elementary
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by elementary on Jun 11, 2011 12:13:09 GMT -5
My lil 5 year old daughter wanted to add this to the conversation :blush: blush and happy sad bug eyes bleh ;D smile :nono: no no :help: help round up :drool: bleh cry kiss
|
|
|
Post by stonesthatrock on Jun 11, 2011 12:13:23 GMT -5
lowell ty very much for the interesting story. I don't know him that well, but i will say he knows his rocks and volunteered to take people on field trips all the time. He was very nice to me and it will be fun to meet up with him again in a couple months.
mary ann
|
|
|
Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Jun 11, 2011 12:19:31 GMT -5
|
|
elementary
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by elementary on Jun 11, 2011 13:20:46 GMT -5
Mary Ann,
He is extremely knowledgeable and he knows those mountains better than most - also the Calicos (he hunts sagenite) and the north cady's. If I had a chance to go out in the field with him on a field trip, I would be a fool to pass it up.
I enjoyed talking to him. It was fun going through the buckets at our silent auction and discussing material, prices and field trips.
Take the opportunity, if you are going on a field trip. It would probably be a great experience.
I don't want to, in any way, shape or form, say that he wouldn't be an excellent guide and companion.
Lowell
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Jun 11, 2011 14:18:58 GMT -5
I also have a similar Cadys story though I know not who the culprit was. A couple of buddies of mine and I hiked way back into the Cadys one time, not far from an area we had hunted before. Found a canyon full of large agate and jasper float plus some good purple agate in vugs. We didn't keep our yaps shut about the site and not long after the CFMS took a field trip in there. Not long after that, a truck road ( not legal at all in that area) appeared and low and behold the area was absolutely stripped. Unfortunately, a lot of commercial collectors infiltrate clubs and use the club field trip forum to gather information used to pillage sites and spoil collecting for us all. That's why, despite many requests, I keep my big mouth closed about my favorite poppy jasper site locations. It's too bad we cannot safely share locations but with all the folks who are just out for a fast buck, that's the way it goes.....Mel
PS: CFMS field trips can get kind of rowdy too. Went on the last fieldtrip ( a fee dig) to Stone Canyon years ago and when the folks hit the site it was almost a free for all. Everyone running around as fast as possible feverishly writing their name on boulders and smashing up a lot of fine material with hammers in their rush to pack out as much as possible. I thought things got fairly ugly more than once but maybe I've just collected too much alone or just with a friend or two.
|
|
|
Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Jun 11, 2011 15:23:30 GMT -5
Mel;
Some of the best Carnelian agate is from sweet,Oregon. Close from the clubs in area over digging, Next to the creek.
Roger Mt. petrified wood, world famous site for agatized wood. close site. For ever BLM Land / timber land. Boundary line in the middle of site of the east side of the old dig of the 60s.
Lets just say "Bob" from Sweethome Oregon is the reason the Petrified wood site is closed!!! In a Chevy s-10 he hauled out in two trips over 5000 Lbs. I was on site to see him doing it. And why Bob meant up with Sunday Branch from Linn County Deputy, Oregon State police, Willamette timber co. BLM staff. Bob and four others had dug for three weeks on the site, ( Camping ) and exposed a 100 cu. Ft. Hole in the mt. Bob was kind enough to share the whole amount of his take, will over 10,000 Lbs. He has a Rock shop in Sweethome Oregon.
For the locals that Know Bob. please till him Thanks for the Site being closed.......
Calapooia River quartz point Close to trespass on mine claim. use to be able to surface collect there.
Holley Blue agate Closed, from drunk kids going out of bonds. with two four tracks.
Oregon house Bill- 3071, should control a lot of the Oregon state lands from over digging.
|
|
Jasper-hound
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 208
|
Post by Jasper-hound on Jun 12, 2011 8:47:18 GMT -5
I have been disappointed with most field trips I have ever attended due to lands being stripped. And having gone to numerous rockhound estate sales, it always astounds me how much people have in their back yards. Now, I have a couple tons in my own backyard but the material was purchased from various miners, dealers, and from estate sales. I have noticed that some people who attend estate sales are very rude and eager to get all the best rocks before anyone else gets one. I agree one hundred percent with Mel that it is unethical to dig up the desert for resell. The bottom line is that a lot of rockhounds are hoarders. I deal and like marking up and reselling material as much as the next guy--it helps recoup some of the sums I have spent on rocks. Dealing needs to be done correctly though, with material legally acquired. I do wonder about the mentality of the original diggers who removed so much from the land out of sheer greed and obsession. I really appreciated Lowell's story. Craig flic.kr/p/9MRfTx
|
|
|
Post by Jack, lapidaryrough on Jun 12, 2011 8:55:16 GMT -5
their KNOWN as ROCK HOGS, in Oregon
|
|