Anyone hear from Dougy lately?

ugh. nice edit peach.

I'm going to get off the internet now before I say something that I regret later. This whole event has me really frustrated and to be talked down to about my "moral obligation"...I'm done with this....

This is well reasoned peach, and I also hear your perspective as a victim. If people you knew refused to return stuff they knew was yours, that sucks. No argument there. However there are a few details that might also be discussed.

I agree that it is against the law to knowingly pay for stolen property. That is called fencing. It is not against the law to innocently buy something a seller does not own. There is probably some gray area in the middle when a deal seems too good to be true, and you have to think it fell off a truck. I won't split that hair.

Here we are talking about ebay buyers and board members who made buys and DID NOT KNOW. So lets not mention any more about receiving stolen property being against the law - it only confuses things because it does not apply here.

Now if I had something and the police asked for it, I would give it. If the owner, a stranger to me, came with a police report or other proper documents, I would give it to them. If the owner, a friend of mine, came with or without documents, I would give it to them.

But. BUT, BUT, BUT. I would not send anything to a owner, a stranger to me, AT MY OWN EXPENSE. I am already ripped off for whatever I paid for property I did not get. Why should I further be out the COST of returning it? (Unless I happen to have plenty of money. Or I got something really valuable that can be returned for a few bucks. Lots here depends on specifics.) generally, I would express sympathy, but ask for shipping costs if it was just $30, $40, or even $80 worth or rock.

Also, with something like 50 tons of rock, which was taken in this case, and the owner is struggling to get a clear inventory and list for the police, I am thinking they do not want to recover POUNDS - especially if they then need to edit the list of what is taken and not recovered. It would be a paperwork nightmare. If I had gotten 10 of the 50 tons, it would be different. I would invite the owner to come pick it up. But returning a tiny fraction of what was taken, at further personal cost, is a gray area.

Still, I would not sell the stuff once I knew it was stolen, because that would be wrong too. It is a messy situation. I heard one buyer was going to donate what they got to a club or charity. That seems like a reasonable solution.

So if the owner says keep it, and just asks for help with information, I don't think anyone should feel bad about not making the gesture of returning it.

I guess I am just saying that right and wrong, moral and immoral, is not always so clear cut. Sometimes the technically moral thing, could involve further expense, or hassle (even possibly for the victim), than it is worth. Judgement is always needed.

Hello,
Thank you Daniel, that sums it up well. The theft in question was from us. To clarify, it was not 50 tons, but a few pallets of material taken. We did move 50 tons from California to Montana however.
As we have said, we do not want the material returned that people recieved unknowing of the theft. We are out enough already and to add even more negative to a already terrible situation we feel serves no one.
Are goal is to get the bulk returned if even possible or at a minumum stop the fraud from proceeding, there is multiple ebay users and wood buyers out tens of thousands of dollars all told, majority having nothing to do with us
Thank you for all the info
Paul orchids9

When speaking of what is moral I can only speak for myself with respect to my buying habits. I only make purchases from reputable legitimate sellers. I am relatively new to this forum and I must say I consider everyone that I have come in contact with to be very nice however I have no way of knowing who is legitimate and honest or not. In fact I don't even know for the most part any of your actual names. So with that said should I stop patronizing the various members on this forum? After all how do I know by what means a member acquired the material he or she is selling? I also buy a lot on Ebay. Again I have no way in knowing how a seller came to acquire the material that they are selling as well though with Ebay there is detailed feedback as public record along with knowing how long a person has been a member.
I think and this is only my humble opinion that the admin of this forum should establish a waiting period in which a member would have to not only wait but be an active participant on the forum before that member can have the right to conduct a sale. I have seen many examples in my short time here that new members joined this forum with only one purpose in mind. That is to use this forum as an avenue in which to sell their material.
To make comments about the moral compass of a member who was an innocent victim of an dis honest seller is uncalled for.
Until such selling restrictions are imposed if ever I think that the lesson to be learned here is to try and know everything that you can with regard to who you are planning to buy from and stay away from new members that are trying to sell. BUYER BEWARE unfortunately is the rule which we all must live by.
Stu

Roy I understand what you are saying and having a waiting period is in no way taking anything out on new members. Most any club, organization or even occupation has an initiation, or probationary period before you gain full member status.
In an ambiguous environment such as a forum were people go by a user name which is not their real name the attraction for a thief to come and sell stolen property is great. The likelihood that a thief would be willing to wait out say a one year waiting period before he can sell is unlikely. If I wanted to sell a piece of jewelry to a jewelry store I have to document my I.D. and address. This is required to deter the sale of stolen goods. Yes this might seem unfair to those good and honest new members who would like to sell however establishing a wait period will in the long run be better over all for the forum. It will make this forum that much better and safer for us all.
To leave the door open for any thief to sell without any barrier to entry is only asking for trouble. By some that lack of action can be looked upon as being complicit. After all everyone knows that there are thieves out there. Shouldn't the forum be expected to have even a minimal moral obligation to deter thieves from selling on the forum?
Stu

yes a policy is needed for new members just joining for selling and maybe even for posting pictures too, as another new questionable joiner joe53 posted a picture suspiciously like the stuff dougy was selling saying he found it on the beach here in Washington - BS! you do not find highly colored poppy jasper on these beaches here.

Yep, he's gone and so is his pic.

forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=introductions&thread=48266&page=1

Wow, this really sucks! Sorry to hear you were ripped off this way Orchid, and everyone who unknowingly did business with that crook as well. Hope they catch him and soon!

everyone, only buy from me.............. lol
Seriously, i am sorry the rock got stolen.
mary ann